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From "Derek Hohls" <>
Subject Re: Getting started (again)
Date Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:29:29 GMT

At the risk of being branded a "heretic", if you're wanting a site
that has "Blog, Forum, Mailing list, Wiki, Content Management, 
Calendar, webmail" why not just use one of the existing web systems 
that already has all these features - Plone springs to mind, but there 
are others out there too.  

My take is that Cocoon is very good at developing specialised 
applications - epsecially those with a high emphasis on web 
publishing and content reuse - and will also handle special purpose,
small-scale apps (DB interaction / XML processing ) very cleanly
and easily. For what you describe you may be better off not reinventing 
the wheel but simply "adopting and customising".


>>> 2005/10/11 06:55 AM >>>
Hey Cocooners,

I've been away from Cocoon for a while (and server side web dev) and 
I'm starting another project that may call for it. I've been looking 
into the changes since I was using it and there seem to be a lot of 
nice improvements and new technologies, but getting a handle on the 
whole package looks as difficult as ever. Basically I need to 
evaluate frameworks for a fairly basic website that needs to be up 
quickly and then have features added to it. I'm trying not to re- 
invent anything, but I also want to be able to nicely integrate and 
customize the components. Common wishes, I suspect.

So I want to find existing projects and learn more about the current 
best practices for 2.1.7.

First, from quickly trying to cover docs, the dev list and a little 
of the user list I think these are the most current, or endorsed, 
technologies in Cocoon, but correct me if I'm wrong:

JXTemplate, cforms, JavaFlow/FlowScript

This replaces what I'm used to in XSP, XSLT, Actions and Generators, 
right? It raises a few questions for me: I always liked XSP and did a 
good job a separating view from controller, is it really frowned 
upon? Can JXTemplates do most of what XSP could? What can't it? Most 
importantly, for a competent Java developer, which is easier/faster 
to work with? Considering CSS on the client and templates in Cocoon, 
is XSLT used much anymore?

I'm also unsure what the best way to store data might be since I see 
so many references to Hibernate, OJB, ESQL, etc. I usually had custom 
generators that performed queries. Assuming that I'm going to go with 
MySQL, what's the preferred method now? I'd actually love to find a 
way to avoid writing SQL and Java business objects at all, if it's 

The site has pretty basic needs, so I'd love to find pre-existing 
Cocoon based implementations. I'm afraid though that even if there 
are projects for these that they might be developed using different 
Cocoon technologies and difficult to integrate. The main thing to 
integrate actually is users, authentication and preferences.

Here's the features I'll need to find or develop: Blog, Forum, 
Mailing list, Wiki, Content Management, Calendar, webmail (doesn't 
really need to be Cocoon based actually). I'm not sure which order 
they'll be implemented, but the site will probably go live without 
most of them and then have them added.

Well, thatnks in advance for any input you can give me. I read most 
of the "Is Cocoon Obsolete" thread on the dev list, and all I can say 
is that I hope not, since on a higher level I understand and very 
much like it's main architectural concepts. It's just very hard to 
wade through all the pieces and options and changes and figure out 
how to actually get going. Choices are almost a bad thing in the 
beginning. A little clarification and simplification could help a lot 
here. But I'm glad to see how things have advanced since I've used it.


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