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From Justin Fagnani <just...@fagnani.com>
Subject Re: Getting started (again)
Date Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:26:28 GMT
I certainly would be interested. I'm sure a lot of others would be too.

This project is probably going to end up PHP based, since there's so  
much existing code to work with, but Cocoon sure could use some app- 
level code out in the wild.

-Justin

On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:16 AM, Jonas Lundberg wrote:

> I have a blog/forum/website script package for Cocoon (using
> eXist/xQuery).  But I thought that there were many of these around
> already. Is there any interest in that?
>
> Hans
>
> On 10/12/05, Derek Hohls <dhohls@csir.co.za> wrote:
>
>> OK - what you are calling "components" I would call "sub-systems" or
>> "modules", each of which encapsulate a whole set of functionality.
>> What I was saying is that I do not see Cocoon having being using to
>> build a lot of these (or, if they have been done, they have not been
>> released back into the overall Cocoon distribution).
>>
>> I agree that if would be very cool to just "take these off the  
>> shelf" and
>> use/extend them; or "plug them together", but I have not seen  
>> anything like
>> that in the Cocoon world (albeit that they are very common in the  
>> PHP world).
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>>>>> justin1@fagnani.com 2005/10/11 05:40:37 PM >>>
>>>>>
>> I understand what you're saying, and I'm certainly checking out other
>> options including Plone. My first choice would be to use Cocoon and
>> off the shelf Cocoon components. I was hoping that by now there would
>> be Cocoon based blogs, forums, calendars, etc that I could grab and
>> integrate. I really have no interest in re-inventing the wheel like I
>> used to try with Cocoon 1.x (when I built a very Plone-like system
>> with Cocoon, btw).
>>
>> It seems like Cocoon would really be ideal for this. The pipeline
>> architecture should make integration and customization easier than
>> with other platforms. Maybe there just aren't the components yet  
>> though.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:29 AM, Derek Hohls wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> At the risk of being branded a "heretic", if you're wanting a site
>>> that has "Blog, Forum, Mailing list, Wiki, Content Management,
>>> Calendar, webmail" why not just use one of the existing web systems
>>> that already has all these features - Plone springs to mind, but  
>>> there
>>> are others out there too.
>>>
>>> My take is that Cocoon is very good at developing specialised
>>> applications - epsecially those with a high emphasis on web
>>> publishing and content reuse - and will also handle special purpose,
>>> small-scale apps (DB interaction / XML processing ) very cleanly
>>> and easily. For what you describe you may be better off not
>>> reinventing
>>> the wheel but simply "adopting and customising".
>>>
>>> HTH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> justin1@fagnani.com 2005/10/11 06:55 AM >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> Hey Cocooners,
>>>
>>> I've been away from Cocoon for a while (and server side web dev) and
>>> I'm starting another project that may call for it. I've been looking
>>> into the changes since I was using it and there seem to be a lot of
>>> nice improvements and new technologies, but getting a handle on the
>>> whole package looks as difficult as ever. Basically I need to
>>> evaluate frameworks for a fairly basic website that needs to be up
>>> quickly and then have features added to it. I'm trying not to re-
>>> invent anything, but I also want to be able to nicely integrate and
>>> customize the components. Common wishes, I suspect.
>>>
>>> So I want to find existing projects and learn more about the current
>>> best practices for 2.1.7.
>>>
>>> First, from quickly trying to cover docs, the dev list and a little
>>> of the user list I think these are the most current, or endorsed,
>>> technologies in Cocoon, but correct me if I'm wrong:
>>>
>>> JXTemplate, cforms, JavaFlow/FlowScript
>>>
>>> This replaces what I'm used to in XSP, XSLT, Actions and Generators,
>>> right? It raises a few questions for me: I always liked XSP and  
>>> did a
>>> good job a separating view from controller, is it really frowned
>>> upon? Can JXTemplates do most of what XSP could? What can't it? Most
>>> importantly, for a competent Java developer, which is easier/faster
>>> to work with? Considering CSS on the client and templates in Cocoon,
>>> is XSLT used much anymore?
>>>
>>> I'm also unsure what the best way to store data might be since I see
>>> so many references to Hibernate, OJB, ESQL, etc. I usually had  
>>> custom
>>> generators that performed queries. Assuming that I'm going to go  
>>> with
>>> MySQL, what's the preferred method now? I'd actually love to find a
>>> way to avoid writing SQL and Java business objects at all, if it's
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> The site has pretty basic needs, so I'd love to find pre-existing
>>> Cocoon based implementations. I'm afraid though that even if there
>>> are projects for these that they might be developed using different
>>> Cocoon technologies and difficult to integrate. The main thing to
>>> integrate actually is users, authentication and preferences.
>>>
>>> Here's the features I'll need to find or develop: Blog, Forum,
>>> Mailing list, Wiki, Content Management, Calendar, webmail (doesn't
>>> really need to be Cocoon based actually). I'm not sure which order
>>> they'll be implemented, but the site will probably go live without
>>> most of them and then have them added.
>>>
>>> Well, thatnks in advance for any input you can give me. I read most
>>> of the "Is Cocoon Obsolete" thread on the dev list, and all I can  
>>> say
>>> is that I hope not, since on a higher level I understand and very
>>> much like it's main architectural concepts. It's just very hard to
>>> wade through all the pieces and options and changes and figure out
>>> how to actually get going. Choices are almost a bad thing in the
>>> beginning. A little clarification and simplification could help a  
>>> lot
>>> here. But I'm glad to see how things have advanced since I've  
>>> used it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Justin
>>>
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