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From Marc Salvetti <>
Subject Re: Cocoon and OpenLaszlo
Date Tue, 30 Aug 2005 08:14:50 GMT

Sebastien Arbogast a écrit :

>>For me, the main difficulty i see is to have underlying "logical"
>>documents that fit with both lazlo and html view. The problem will
>>always be to match this or this lazlo feature (like window or layout) in
>>html+css. Proably a lot of headaches here, but really worth it :)
>You're right. It would be like trying to combine two different ways to
>do the same thing : Cocoon and Laszlo are both for the presentation
>layer, but Cocoon is MVC whereas Laszlo is not, so piping Cocoon M and
>C into a Laszlo V would require Laszlo to be MVC itself, which it's
>not and it's normal as it' doesn't need to be : MVC fits for the
>classical Web, not for that new kind of RIA's.
That's not what i meant :), i think it's possible to see laszlo as just 
another channel in multiprocessing. But you have to think about it when 
you design your webapp.
I will try to be a bit more detailed here, as i already thought a bit 
about that ;)

let's say you have your data
<data>hello world</data>
then you hav a xsl that changes it in a logical page in a neutral "GUI 
language" which can be deeply inspired from the laszlo grammar :
    <canvas id="hello-world"><text>hello world</text></canvas>
then you can have a xsl by channel :
the classical html+css styling
    <body><div class="canvas" id="hello-world"><span>hello 
or the laszlo styling :
<canvas id="hello-world">
    <text>hello world</text>

All you need is to design xsl templates that match laszlo features, like 
canvas, window (can be easily done with good css and a bit of client 
js), layout (i think it's the more difficult to do) etc...

>I guess the best thing is to make a choice. It's already amazing what
>you can do with this incredible framework. For example, I haven't
>tried it yet, but it seems that you can connect a Laszlo presentation
>layer with a Spring business layer through JavaRPC.
So i don't think you have to make a choice, you just have to structure 
your logical documents thinking a bit about how laszlo works.

>In fact it depends on what your priority is. If you want accessibility
>and multichanneling first, Cocoon is the best choice. If user
>experience is your main concern, Laszlo is excellent. And this
>user-experience concern is becoming very present : think of XUL or
>XAML, they do exactly the same as Laszlo, except that those two are
>not portable between browsers...

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