Mailing-List: contact users-help@cocoon.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (hermes.apache.org: local policy)
Message-Id: <s2aeef8f.082@cs-emo.csir.co.za>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:53:39 +0200
From: "Derek Hohls" <DHohls@csir.co.za>
To: <users@cocoon.apache.org>
Subject: Re: AW: CForms and Modular Database Actions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Askild

Thanks for the "tips"... for me (and maybe others) I am sure
a simple working demo [uh, the kind where you do not have
to rebuild Cocoon and add/remove blocks etc etc!] would be=20
very useful... even a series of code snippets.  If it works,
I would be happy to "dress it up" and add to the wiki.

Failing that (I know, we are all busy people), I think the parts
that are most unclear, are the "Bind this document to the Form=20
(load)".... surely indicating that there are aspects of CForms
I still find obscure!

As always, any light to the unenlightened is welcome!

Derek

PS I did read Stefano's "wake up call"... certainly there are
always going to be those who "need to grok the code"... but there
also the great mass of users out here - self included - who simply
need to "do stuff" with XML and are not great architecture developers.
I am sure Cocoon World is big enough for both & hope we can see=20
that one needs the other!

>>> askild@xangeli.com 2005/06/14 02:06:07 PM >>>
Yes, Derek, I have followed the discussion with great interest, but not=20
participated myself. It seams like reason has won, and someone even=20
tries to enhance the current XSP-block! 0:-)

As a side note here, look at <?a=3D93967486800002&r=3D1&w=3D2>
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=3Dxml-cocoon-dev&m=3D110848544625231&w=3D2=
=20
where Stefano Mazzocchi writes about the two "camps" on the dev-list.=20
<?a=3D93967486800002&r=3D1&w=3D2>


A simple db-webapp with Flow/CForms and SQL  *could* be as follows:

* Use one pipeline with the SQL-transformer to generate an XML-document=20
from the DB.
* Bind this document to the Form (load)
* When the document is edited (save), inject the document to another=20
pipeline with JX, using XSLT and SQL-transformer to update the DB.

Reading and "writing" the bound XML from and to pipelines makes the=20
implementation transparent to Flow and CForms, so substituting the=20
implementation is easy (we use our own XDB based on SQL instead of=20
SQL-statements, but the principle is the same).

Just a tip in the "right" direction... ;-)

Askild
-

Derek Hohls wrote:

>Askild
>
>My skills are similar to yours... but, I have not seen any=20
>documents or examples that deal with the creation of a=20
>full-fledged DB app that only uses  XSLT, XML, SQL-transformer=20
>and Flow/CForms.  I'd be very happy if you can point me in the
>right direction.
>
>Thanks.
>
>P.S.  XSP is *not* deprecated (see other threads for this).
>
> =20
>
>>>>askild@xangeli.com 2005/06/14 12:34:26 PM >>>
>>>>       =20
>>>>
>Derek Hohls wrote:
>
> =20
>
>>Tom
>>
>>Ok; that is one viewpoint.  But I think these quotes from the Wiki:
>>http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/GettingStartedWithCocoonAndHibernate=20
>>are also pertinent:
>>
>>"Be aware that you will not be ready to write Hibernate-based application=
s=20
>>in 5 minutes. You are about to venture into a complex topic. Sit back, =
get a=20
>>cup of tea and prepare for some **days** of reading and learning.=20
>>The following skills are mandatory:=20
>>You need to be proficient in Java..."
>>
>>I did spend a fair chunk of last year downloading and days reading =
through=20
>>the Hibernate documents - they do seem fairly comprehensive and=20
>>well-written... but they are not simple or straightforward.  And for
>>someone like myself, with skills in XML, XSLT, Javascript, SQL... all of
>>which have been more than sufficient to develop webapps with Cocoon over
>>the past few - the add-in of high-level Java skills to the mix is a =
really "gotcha"=20
>>that significantly raises the learning barrier here.
>>
>>So to rephrase my original point - is this the only way to develop =
interactive
>>database webapps with Cocoon - or should PHP start looking like an =
attractive=20
>>option once more?!=20
>>
>>=20
>>
>>   =20
>>
>It's the "only" way if your skills are in Java only... ;-)
>
>The Cocoon-community seems divided in two different camps; one that =
use=20
>it as a Java-development framework, and another that uses it as an=20
>XML-development framework.
>
>I myself belong to the second, using only XML, XSLT, transformers =
(e.g.=20
>SQL), XSP (e.q. ESQL) and Flow. A lot of people will point my finger =
at=20
>me shouting "bad practice", XSP is deprecated! The original idea =
behind=20
>XSP was to have an efficient way to prototype/script generators, but=20
>having been misused for "control" in the MVC-pattern, some looks at =
XSP=20
>itself as bad design...
>
>So, sitemaps, XSLT, XML, SQL-transformer and optionaly Flow will get =
you=20
>a long way to develop yout interactive database wepabb. Used in the=20
>right manner, it works - brilliantly!
>
>In the end it's your ability to design a good architechture that saves=20
>the day, not a lot of fancy tools and frameworks.
>
>Askild
>-
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org=20
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org=20
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org=20
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org=20
>
>
> =20
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org=20
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org=20


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org