Mailing-List: contact users-help@cocoon.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Received-SPF: neutral (hermes.apache.org: local policy)
Message-ID: <42AEC82F.5050204@xangeli.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:06:07 +0200
From: Askild Aaberg Olsen <askild@xangeli.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: AW: CForms and Modular Database Actions
References: <s2aedb6c.037@cs-emo.csir.co.za>
In-Reply-To: <s2aedb6c.037@cs-emo.csir.co.za>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes, Derek, I have followed the discussion with great interest, but not 
participated myself. It seams like reason has won, and someone even 
tries to enhance the current XSP-block! 0:-)

As a side note here, look at <?a=93967486800002&r=1&w=2>
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=110848544625231&w=2
where Stefano Mazzocchi writes about the two "camps" on the dev-list. 
<?a=93967486800002&r=1&w=2>


A simple db-webapp with Flow/CForms and SQL  *could* be as follows:

* Use one pipeline with the SQL-transformer to generate an XML-document 
from the DB.
* Bind this document to the Form (load)
* When the document is edited (save), inject the document to another 
pipeline with JX, using XSLT and SQL-transformer to update the DB.

Reading and "writing" the bound XML from and to pipelines makes the 
implementation transparent to Flow and CForms, so substituting the 
implementation is easy (we use our own XDB based on SQL instead of 
SQL-statements, but the principle is the same).

Just a tip in the "right" direction... ;-)

Askild
-

Derek Hohls wrote:

>Askild
>
>My skills are similar to yours... but, I have not seen any 
>documents or examples that deal with the creation of a 
>full-fledged DB app that only uses  XSLT, XML, SQL-transformer 
>and Flow/CForms.  I'd be very happy if you can point me in the
>right direction.
>
>Thanks.
>
>P.S.  XSP is *not* deprecated (see other threads for this).
>
>  
>
>>>>askild@xangeli.com 2005/06/14 12:34:26 PM >>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>Derek Hohls wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Tom
>>
>>Ok; that is one viewpoint.  But I think these quotes from the Wiki:
>>http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/GettingStartedWithCocoonAndHibernate 
>>are also pertinent:
>>
>>"Be aware that you will not be ready to write Hibernate-based applications 
>>in 5 minutes. You are about to venture into a complex topic. Sit back, get a 
>>cup of tea and prepare for some **days** of reading and learning. 
>>The following skills are mandatory: 
>>You need to be proficient in Java..."
>>
>>I did spend a fair chunk of last year downloading and days reading through 
>>the Hibernate documents - they do seem fairly comprehensive and 
>>well-written... but they are not simple or straightforward.  And for
>>someone like myself, with skills in XML, XSLT, Javascript, SQL... all of
>>which have been more than sufficient to develop webapps with Cocoon over
>>the past few - the add-in of high-level Java skills to the mix is a really "gotcha" 
>>that significantly raises the learning barrier here.
>>
>>So to rephrase my original point - is this the only way to develop interactive
>>database webapps with Cocoon - or should PHP start looking like an attractive 
>>option once more?! 
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>It's the "only" way if your skills are in Java only... ;-)
>
>The Cocoon-community seems divided in two different camps; one that use 
>it as a Java-development framework, and another that uses it as an 
>XML-development framework.
>
>I myself belong to the second, using only XML, XSLT, transformers (e.g. 
>SQL), XSP (e.q. ESQL) and Flow. A lot of people will point my finger at 
>me shouting "bad practice", XSP is deprecated! The original idea behind 
>XSP was to have an efficient way to prototype/script generators, but 
>having been misused for "control" in the MVC-pattern, some looks at XSP 
>itself as bad design...
>
>So, sitemaps, XSLT, XML, SQL-transformer and optionaly Flow will get you 
>a long way to develop yout interactive database wepabb. Used in the 
>right manner, it works - brilliantly!
>
>In the end it's your ability to design a good architechture that saves 
>the day, not a lot of fancy tools and frameworks.
>
>Askild
>-
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org 
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org 
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
>  
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org