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From "Derek Hohls" <DHo...@csir.co.za>
Subject Re: AW: CForms and Modular Database Actions
Date Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:53:39 GMT
Askild

Thanks for the "tips"... for me (and maybe others) I am sure
a simple working demo [uh, the kind where you do not have
to rebuild Cocoon and add/remove blocks etc etc!] would be 
very useful... even a series of code snippets.  If it works,
I would be happy to "dress it up" and add to the wiki.

Failing that (I know, we are all busy people), I think the parts
that are most unclear, are the "Bind this document to the Form 
(load)".... surely indicating that there are aspects of CForms
I still find obscure!

As always, any light to the unenlightened is welcome!

Derek

PS I did read Stefano's "wake up call"... certainly there are
always going to be those who "need to grok the code"... but there
also the great mass of users out here - self included - who simply
need to "do stuff" with XML and are not great architecture developers.
I am sure Cocoon World is big enough for both & hope we can see 
that one needs the other!

>>> askild@xangeli.com 2005/06/14 02:06:07 PM >>>
Yes, Derek, I have followed the discussion with great interest, but not 
participated myself. It seams like reason has won, and someone even 
tries to enhance the current XSP-block! 0:-)

As a side note here, look at <?a=93967486800002&r=1&w=2>
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=110848544625231&w=2 
where Stefano Mazzocchi writes about the two "camps" on the dev-list. 
<?a=93967486800002&r=1&w=2>


A simple db-webapp with Flow/CForms and SQL  *could* be as follows:

* Use one pipeline with the SQL-transformer to generate an XML-document 
from the DB.
* Bind this document to the Form (load)
* When the document is edited (save), inject the document to another 
pipeline with JX, using XSLT and SQL-transformer to update the DB.

Reading and "writing" the bound XML from and to pipelines makes the 
implementation transparent to Flow and CForms, so substituting the 
implementation is easy (we use our own XDB based on SQL instead of 
SQL-statements, but the principle is the same).

Just a tip in the "right" direction... ;-)

Askild
-

Derek Hohls wrote:

>Askild
>
>My skills are similar to yours... but, I have not seen any 
>documents or examples that deal with the creation of a 
>full-fledged DB app that only uses  XSLT, XML, SQL-transformer 
>and Flow/CForms.  I'd be very happy if you can point me in the
>right direction.
>
>Thanks.
>
>P.S.  XSP is *not* deprecated (see other threads for this).
>
>  
>
>>>>askild@xangeli.com 2005/06/14 12:34:26 PM >>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>Derek Hohls wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Tom
>>
>>Ok; that is one viewpoint.  But I think these quotes from the Wiki:
>>http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/GettingStartedWithCocoonAndHibernate 
>>are also pertinent:
>>
>>"Be aware that you will not be ready to write Hibernate-based applications 
>>in 5 minutes. You are about to venture into a complex topic. Sit back, get a 
>>cup of tea and prepare for some **days** of reading and learning. 
>>The following skills are mandatory: 
>>You need to be proficient in Java..."
>>
>>I did spend a fair chunk of last year downloading and days reading through 
>>the Hibernate documents - they do seem fairly comprehensive and 
>>well-written... but they are not simple or straightforward.  And for
>>someone like myself, with skills in XML, XSLT, Javascript, SQL... all of
>>which have been more than sufficient to develop webapps with Cocoon over
>>the past few - the add-in of high-level Java skills to the mix is a really "gotcha"

>>that significantly raises the learning barrier here.
>>
>>So to rephrase my original point - is this the only way to develop interactive
>>database webapps with Cocoon - or should PHP start looking like an attractive 
>>option once more?! 
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>It's the "only" way if your skills are in Java only... ;-)
>
>The Cocoon-community seems divided in two different camps; one that use 
>it as a Java-development framework, and another that uses it as an 
>XML-development framework.
>
>I myself belong to the second, using only XML, XSLT, transformers (e.g. 
>SQL), XSP (e.q. ESQL) and Flow. A lot of people will point my finger at 
>me shouting "bad practice", XSP is deprecated! The original idea behind 
>XSP was to have an efficient way to prototype/script generators, but 
>having been misused for "control" in the MVC-pattern, some looks at XSP 
>itself as bad design...
>
>So, sitemaps, XSLT, XML, SQL-transformer and optionaly Flow will get you 
>a long way to develop yout interactive database wepabb. Used in the 
>right manner, it works - brilliantly!
>
>In the end it's your ability to design a good architechture that saves 
>the day, not a lot of fancy tools and frameworks.
>
>Askild
>-
>
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