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From Askild Aaberg Olsen <>
Subject Re: AW: CForms and Modular Database Actions
Date Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:24:07 GMT

> Askild Aaberg Olsen wrote:
>> I'll see if I can make a demo of this concept tonight. A "stock" 
>> Cocoon-installation comes with a working database, so it should be 
>> easy to install and not too much work.
>> I don't mean that using Cocoon as a Java-framework is wrong, I just 
>> want to address that solving this issue can be much simpler than 
>> utilizing Hibernate etc, which seems to be the only answer users who 
>> need to "do stuff" with XML gets. :-)
> What you're arguing is that tightly coupling your data access code to 
> Cocoon is a good idea.  And I can't think of a single circumstance 
> where that could make sense.  In fact, I can't think of a case where 
> it makes sense to tightly couple your data access to any framework.
> Consider how you will reuse that code outside of Cocoon.  Say you want 
> to use some other framework at the same time.  Say you want to write 
> some utilities to run inside another jvm to run scheduled jobs.
> Furthermore, the capabilities for transactions exposed to you are 
> minimal at best.  Modular db actions - with all due respect for the 
> people who wrote it - are a completely inadequate solution when 
> compared to things like Hibernate and OJB.  They get you 20% of the 
> way there and then you're screwed the rest of the time.
> phil.

Why is tightly coupling my data access code to Hibernate so much better 
then, isn't this yet another framework (like EJBs)?
What if I don't have the need to reuse this code?
What if I'm just a newbie trying to get some data into my webapp?

I never argued Hibernate/OJB wrong or bad practive, I just outlined an 
alternative method to get a simple db-driven app up and running using a 
stock Cocoon, without the need to write a single line of Java-code (not 
using modular db actions, by the way...).

Maybe I will use Hibernate in the future. I have considered it more than 
once the last couple of months, but whenever I start with it, I don't 
see *my* value from this. I guess there are more like me out there, and 
this was *one* way to solve the issue.


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