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From: "Cristina Malonzo" <cmalonzo@snapbridge.com>
To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: RE: [OT] This is quite disappointing...
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:23:14 +0800
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In-Reply-To: <s1946f38.092@cs-emo.csir.co.za>
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Hi, I am a new user of Cocoon..
I agree with what you guys are talking about. It would really be helpful if
Cocoon has a very good documentation where new users can refer to all the
time. This mailing list is really a great help and a forum, where anyone can
ask whatever question that they have in mind, and of course, having a "guru"
answer them is probably the best help anyone can get ;-)

> On 11 Nov 2004, at 06:17, Derek Hohls wrote:
>
>> Brent
>>
>> Sure.  Even good documentation will never substitute for being
>> able to ask a "guru" and, as I said originally, the Cocoon
community
>> is one of its key strengths.  Its just that to get people over the
>> initial learning hurdle takes guidance; and most of us are prepared
>> to "self learn" with a reasonable level of written material.
>>
>> I agree that part of the revised docs could/should be a FAQ; not
>> too hard to do if you are prepared to wade through past archives!
>>
>> One of the subjects I would like to see addressed, and it does come
>> up quite often,  is a comprehensive guide to "Variables in the
> Cocoon
>> Environment".  There are a multitude of places where variable data
>> can be stored and manipulated (XSP, XSLT, Flow, Sitemap, Java etc.)
>> and passing data around an application can be just as hairy.  This
> is
>> a topic which cuts across a number of others and, for that reason,
>> would give quite a good perspective on the "inner workings" of
> Cocoon
>> as well as being helpful on where and how to deal with data.
>>
>> My 2 too.
>>
>>>>> bljohnson@gmail.com 2004/11/10 04:52:43 PM >>>
>> Maybe there is one and Ive just never found it.  But a Cocoon forum
>> would be pretty helpful.  Sure this list is great.. and most people
> on
>> it are very helpful.  It'd be nice to have an archive of helpful
>> answers, stickyable topics, forum categories, etc.  I realize
>> marc.theaimsgroup.com mailing list searches are fairly helpful..
but
> a
>> forum would be much nicer.
>>
>> Sure there could stand to be more documentation.. but I found when
I
>> was learning how to use Hibernate I frequently searched their
forums
>> for more obscure questions/answers than reviewing the
documentation.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> - Brent
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:16 +0200, Derek Hohls <dhohls@csir.co.za>
>> wrote:
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> Yup.  I am not envious of any other open source package
>>> ito community support and the intrinsic capability of the system
>>> but I if had the odd, spare $10k or even $100k lying around
>>> the first thing I would do is offer to hire some people (tech
> expert
>>> + writer/editor) to redo all the documents; including the main
>>> website and wiki.  Plus produce a high quality "getting going"
> guide
>>> (such as the one that projects like Hibernate has.)
>>>
>>> I can dream, right?
>>>
>>> Derek
>>>
>>> PS Yes, in theory, the above could be done by the community,
>>> but in practice some old-fashioned, top-down, focussed effort is
>>> actually what it takes to get something like this together.
>>>
>>>>>> Ralph.Goers@dslextreme.com 2004/11/10 08:54:17 AM >>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Derek Hohls wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess my 2c is that I do think Cocoon remains obscure.  There
>>>> seem to be lots of people doing lots of good things with it, but
>>>> its never promoted [read - not discussed, written about, in
forums
>>>> outside of Cocoon groups, where others could sit up and take
>>>> notice].  It is a chicken-and-egg situation... but these things
> can
>>>> be changed.
>>>>
>>> My $.02.
>>>
>>> My experience with everyone who is now using Cocoon in our
>> organization
>>>
>>> has gone something like this:
>>>
>>> 1. I already know Struts (and JSPs)...
>>> 2. It's too complicated.
>>> 3. The documentation is bad. The published books are old and don't
>>> cover
>>> the current release.
>>> 4. Wow. It does that?!
>>> 5. This is really ccol!
>>>
>>> Obviously, getting past 1, 2 and 3 are the hard part, with 1 and 2
>>> being
>>> the worst. The irony is that the solution, IMO, is number 3.
> Cocoon
>>> needs better documentation, more published articles, and better
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>
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