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From "Derek Hohls" <DHo...@csir.co.za>
Subject Re: [OT] This is quite disappointing...
Date Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:17:24 GMT
Brent

Sure.  Even good documentation will never substitute for being
able to ask a "guru" and, as I said originally, the Cocoon community
is one of its key strengths.  Its just that to get people over the 
initial learning hurdle takes guidance; and most of us are prepared
to "self learn" with a reasonable level of written material.  

I agree that part of the revised docs could/should be a FAQ; not 
too hard to do if you are prepared to wade through past archives!

One of the subjects I would like to see addressed, and it does come
up quite often,  is a comprehensive guide to "Variables in the Cocoon
Environment".  There are a multitude of places where variable data
can be stored and manipulated (XSP, XSLT, Flow, Sitemap, Java etc.)
and passing data around an application can be just as hairy.  This is 
a topic which cuts across a number of others and, for that reason,
would give quite a good perspective on the "inner workings" of Cocoon
as well as being helpful on where and how to deal with data.

My 2 too.

>>> bljohnson@gmail.com 2004/11/10 04:52:43 PM >>>
Maybe there is one and Ive just never found it.  But a Cocoon forum
would be pretty helpful.  Sure this list is great.. and most people on
it are very helpful.  It'd be nice to have an archive of helpful
answers, stickyable topics, forum categories, etc.  I realize
marc.theaimsgroup.com mailing list searches are fairly helpful.. but a
forum would be much nicer.

Sure there could stand to be more documentation.. but I found when I
was learning how to use Hibernate I frequently searched their forums
for more obscure questions/answers than reviewing the documentation.

Just my 2 cents.

- Brent

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:16 +0200, Derek Hohls <dhohls@csir.co.za>
wrote:
> Ralph
> 
> Yup.  I am not envious of any other open source package
> ito community support and the intrinsic capability of the system
> but I if had the odd, spare $10k or even $100k lying around
> the first thing I would do is offer to hire some people (tech expert
> + writer/editor) to redo all the documents; including the main
> website and wiki.  Plus produce a high quality "getting going" guide
> (such as the one that projects like Hibernate has.)
> 
> I can dream, right?
> 
> Derek
> 
> PS Yes, in theory, the above could be done by the community,
> but in practice some old-fashioned, top-down, focussed effort is
> actually what it takes to get something like this together.
> 
> >>> Ralph.Goers@dslextreme.com 2004/11/10 08:54:17 AM >>>
> 
> 
> Derek Hohls wrote:
> 
> >I guess my 2c is that I do think Cocoon remains obscure.  There
> >seem to be lots of people doing lots of good things with it, but
> >its never promoted [read - not discussed, written about, in forums
> >outside of Cocoon groups, where others could sit up and take
> >notice].  It is a chicken-and-egg situation... but these things can
> >be changed.
> >
> My $.02.
> 
> My experience with everyone who is now using Cocoon in our
organization
> 
> has gone something like this:
> 
> 1. I already know Struts (and JSPs)...
> 2. It's too complicated.
> 3. The documentation is bad. The published books are old and don't
> cover
> the current release.
> 4. Wow. It does that?!
> 5. This is really ccol!
> 
> Obviously, getting past 1, 2 and 3 are the hard part, with 1 and 2
> being
> the worst. The irony is that the solution, IMO, is number 3.  Cocoon
> needs better documentation, more published articles, and better
> documentation.
> 
> Ralph
> 
>
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