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From Ivo Limmen <>
Subject Re: Lets Not Go Big Game Hunting!
Date Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:54:42 GMT
Derek Hohls wrote:

>No, this isn't a spam email.
>I just digested (er, read) Bruce Tate's brilliant article on
>"Don't make me eat the elephant again" where he looks
>at his past, current (and future?) love-hate relationship
>with the various EJB versions.
>Read it at:
>and draw your own conclusions (and comparisons) with
>developments in Cocoon - for exampe, here's one quote:
>"But while I was slogging through six files to do simple 
>persistence, my friends were laughing and dancing around 
>their POJO applications with ordinary JDBC. And they were 
>doing much more, with much less. "
>I haven't had to tackle even a fraction of the technology
>that Bruce has had to deal with, but he sums up much
>of what I have been feeling in recent times about Cocoon;
>especially the whole issue about integrating persistence
>frameworks for database access, and all the layers that
>are now required - from forms to hibernate config files
>and more (if you toss in Spring as well).
>Expand capabilities?  Yes. Add power features?  Sure.
>But lets keep it simple and usable!!
I have know idea of your knowledge on Cocoon but it does have the 
ability to disable and enable features when you build your own version.
I myself do not have that much experience in Cocoon and found myself 
stuck with a web application that is about 25 MB large and can only 
generate simple PDF and Excel files, and that was after I completly 
stripped all features.
I personally agree that Cocoon is a bloated. I simply want to make some 
generators, transformers and selectors and some xslt. I wind up with 25 
A thing that bothers me as well is the configuration. I want to be able 
to deploy a war at a customer and let him set the initialize parameters 
in the web.xml and activate the web application, but this is not 
possible with Cocoon. I have a workaround but it does not make my 
application very pretty (and for a commerial application; it should be).

>My 2c soapbox for the day...

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