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From Bruno Dumon <>
Subject Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?
Date Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:57:10 GMT
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 14:50, Derek Hohls wrote:
> And in the beginning, Stephan Mazocchi created Cocoon.  It was based on
> XML - Programmers used Java and Users used XSLT - and it was simple but
> good.  And it worked and applications were delivered.  Everyone
> understood and everyone was happy.
> And then the Users spoke up, saying that Web Publishing was complex and
> that more Features were required.  And so the Pipeline and Pipeline
> Components and The Sitemap were created, and they too were based on XML
> and Java and they were good.  And, because more Logic was required, XSP
> was created - a Marriage of XSLT and Java - and it too worked, and
> applications were delivered.  Although some scorned XSP, preferring the
> purity of the Pipeline Component, most understood and most were happy.
> And the Users demanded more; saying that Web Publishing was not enough
> and that Web Applications, requiring yet more Logic and Functionality,
> were required.  And so were created Cocoon Forms (oft-called 'Woody', to
> the confusion of the uninitiated) and Flowscript, based on JavaScript. 
> While some now wondered about the introduction of yet another Language,
> some understood and some seemed happy.
> But many still spoke up, saying that Cocoon was but one Framework among
> many and so insufficient on its own to deliver Real Applications.  And
> so a great Babel of other languages and tools were taken up and other
> approaches, based on the Old Ways of Templating Languages (up to now,
> considered a heresy amongst the Cocoooners), were incorporated.

It's not because the word "template" is used that you should
automatically associate it with the average JSP. XSP, which you seemed
to like, is also a template system after all. In comparison, JXTemplate
doesn't allow you to embed arbitrary code, so is much more difficult to

It's perfectly possible to use a template to generate styling-free data
which you then run through an XSLT to perform the styling. In that
sense, a template is just an easy way to create a custom generator.

Bruno Dumon                   
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center                

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