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From Bertrand Delacretaz <>
Subject Re: cocoon-blank.war II
Date Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:01:01 GMT
Le Jeudi, 11 déc 2003, à 06:07 Europe/Zurich, Geoff Howard a écrit :

> ...As I see it, these are the problems people have with the build 
> process:

Nice analysis! Let my try to elaborate on it (just my 2 swiss centimes):

> 1) emotional shock at having to build at all.

Positive IMHO, helps people realize that Cocoon is a tool for 

> 2) java environment problems (jvm instead of jdk, JAVA_HOME not set, 
> endorsed libs problem?)

You have the same problems when running Cocoon later on anyway, having 
to build it first makes no difference here AFAIK.

> 3) winzip empty libs problem


> 4) failure to read INSTALL.txt

People should do their homework, and maybe help us fix the docs if 
they're unclear (read the "getting started" tracks for example).

> 5) trouble deciphering the options in and 

Agree on this one, that's where a web application (or a build based on 
a higher-level config file) could help. But generating 
local.*.properties files would be enough IMHO.

> 6) misinterpreting build output (warnings!=failure !)

ok, one for the docs I guess.

> the web based builder idea helps with all of those, except postpones 
> the  problem with java environment (#2).

So maybe a web app that would explain (once again) the steps needed to 
run Cocoon and spit out local.*.properties files according to  the 
user's options (by activating groups of related blocks) might be 
useful. More than that is not very practical IMHO.

I don't mean to sound cynical - if people are willing to build and 
maintain front-ends to the build system, why not.

But again, I don't think we want Cocoon to be a shrink-wrapped thing 
that fools people into thinking it is a point-and-click thing, only to 
have them miserably fail later on. Failing early is certainly better if 
people do not have the necessary skills/mindset.

Again, just my 2c.


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