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From Juan Ignacio Jiménez de Luis <>
Subject Re: Cocoon activity
Date Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:00:50 GMT

	As a fairly new user (4 months now, 2 apps in production), I found 
cocoon a little bit hard the first time I used.

	When I came to cocoon, I had quite a lot of experience in many of the 
areas concerned: I used PHP since PHP-FI 2 (lots of years), and have 
worked for 4 years in an ISP doing Linux/Apache manteinnance for a 
system used by 1000+ customers. I had 6 months experience in 
JSP/Servlet development, and 2 years fiddling arround in XML/XSLT.

	I came to cocoon 4 months after finishing a project (a digital 
newspaper) in PHP that made quickly & dirtly more or less what cocoon 
promised: XSLT processing of XML files generated elsewhere (SQL, 
external URL, static file) taken  the information from  an xml 
configuration file I (curiously enough) dubbed

	I tried to compile and install cocoon and succeded, didn't find it 
hard, but working my way until i published a web with cocoon took me 
quite a long time. I think most of the time was lost triying to forget 
about the  traditional approach to web publishing (files or scripts) 
and get used to the cocoon concept (pipelines). I think a complete 
newbie to web publishing would have it easier to start (except maybe 
having some backgound in SAX processing) than any of us.  In my first 
cocoon projects i keep using filenames for  the matchers, and had a lot 
of pipelines. Now i just have 4 or 5 pipelines to serve a complete web 

	The user documentation helps, but its quite technical for 
non-programmers, which on the other hand is something normal if cocoon 
is a framework for us programmers to develop web apps, and not an end 
user solution. Cocoonwiki is the best help out there.

	My main concern with cocoon is the time it takes to debug anything.. 
The system is so complex (different files, different places the 
pipeline can fail, diferent protocols, generators, etc. ) that finding 
where the problem is takes too much time doing trial and error.

	Maybe a good IDE integration with debugging supported would be a 
"great leap forward"  for the cocoon framework.


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