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From "Derek Hohls" <>
Subject Re: proposal: "The Newbies Competence Center"
Date Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:33:13 GMT
This is getting periously close to documentation ;-)
Seriously, this is the kind of description that is incredibly 
useful to have up front - never mind arguing over who should
have what skills and how they should work together ... that
is a project/company issue and will differ from case-case
(the current view is that most people are multi-skilled anyway)
BUT we can all agree on what skills are needed to work
with Cocoon and can link our documentation (see other mail
on wiki classifications) to those skills; what Peter elsewhere
has called "role based documentation".  
It will be of great help to the new user to see what he/she might
be expected to know (or learn) before getting up in the 
intricacies of sitemaps, generators and the rest of the jargon!

>>> 27/01/2003 11:59:41 >>>
Tony Collen wrote:

>For instance, with a typical installation of Cocoon, we could define
>following roles:
>    - Content Creator.  This person authors XML for the site to be
>transformed.  This role works when most of the content is static.
>However, if a lot of the data is being pulled out of a database, they
>would be in charge of something like data entry into the database,

I've been seeing this role work out well in practice.  There is 
grumbling when they can't mark up their content significantly like they

used to in Frontpage or Dreamweaver, but after seeing a demo, they 
usually acquiesce.

>    - Graphic/Web designer.  This person is in charge of the style of
>the site.  Not only do they come up with how the site looks through
>design of the final HTML, but they also write the XSL to transform
>content into the desired format.  Sometimes this person is also the
>content creator.

This role, however, falls apart quickly.  There are three roles here
it's rare that any one person satisfies all of the roles successfully.

1) The graphic designer:
     The artist/production manager who is a whiz with Photoshop/Paint 
Shop Pro/The GIMP.  They design the overall look and feel for the site.
Anyone who has seen a good graphic artist can attest to the fact that 
not everyone can do the job.

2) The HTML/CSS web monkey (term of endearment -- not meant to
     Can take the layout design from the graphic artist and turn it
clean and useable HTML/CSS markup.  Frontpage et al are useless in this


3) The XSLT author:
     Transforms the internal XML document to the web monkey's HTML 
model.  This role is commonly found in the engineering department and
needed for the non-presentational transformations that occur quite
in Cocoon as well.

In my opinion, it is by far the greatest amount of work in site 
production in terms of getting off the ground.

>    - Administrator.  In charge of the servlet container, and
>modifying the main sitemap.  Monitors logs, and able to identify
>when a component would need to be cacheable, poolable, etc. 
>this role can further be separated out into servlet container admin
>sitemap admin.

Developers too often need to edit the sitemap for this.  The 
Administrator definitely deals with installing software packages (would

be in charge of installing blocks for example) and maintaining the 
servlet container/EJB container.  But the sitemap is definitely
into the lead developer's domain with subsitemaps handled by subproject

leads.  Could you imagine asking a sysadmin to switch the cinclude 
transformer to a non-caching variety on URL pattern X?  I can, however,

see a lead developer editing the sitemap locally on a development box 
and asking the sysadmin to upload the changes.

>    - Programmer.  I think this is what we now call "developer" --
>this person is capable of developing custom components, e.g.
>XSPs, etc.  This person might also code the Flow layer logic.  But

And this person would definitely need to have access to a sitemap for 
testing and deployment.  They can't work in a bubble.  New generators 
and XSPs go hand in hand with at least one new URL pattern in the

>Ideally, all of these roles work together in order to get things done,
>they only have to worry about their specific role.

I have come to believe this is a fairy tale.  No individual in a 
development group, in my opinion, can *ever* worry about just their 
role.  They can specialize on their role, but you can't make a rigid 
wall here.  Maybe as Cocoon (and more specifically, Cocoon's best 
practices) matures, this may get better.

What Cocoon has done is allow each role to define their contracts with

which to work with each other.  The content authors always make 
documents according to a particular schema (although more likely, they

are filling in a web form or using some standalone data entry client),

and no matter how the layout or storage method changes, their work is 
safe.  Their schema is their contract.  The programmer puts the content

away and retrieves in again.  They respect the content author's
(usually they defined the contract) and can switch datastores, 
versioning, access points, etc. without disturbing the way the content

authors work.  The presentation group takes the content made by the 
content authors and made available by the programmers (and/or site 
administrator) and is assured of their result because they know their 
inputs -- the contracts -- are defined.

This is not the same as ignorance of each others' roles in a working 
group.  This is simply allowing each to easily work in parallel without

stepping on each others' toes.  The day that each group only worries 
about their role and no one else's is the day that communication stops

and things start to suffer.  Cocoon allows these concerns to be 
separated so that while people can negotiate their contracts (to coin a

phrase), there is no point to a content author getting into the details

of a generator.  Their contract is fulfilled when they write their 
content.  It works because it's *harder* in Cocoon to find
to step on someone else's work, but that doesn't mean, for example,
a programmer can't be interested in what the designer is making or help

in design work.  It just means that the artistically gifted programmer

starts working with a different contract in mind.

With JSPs, you only had self-control and discipline to maintain the 
contracts (assuming the contracts were adopted in the first place).  
Cocoon is simply codifying it: making the right thing easier to do than

the wrong thing.

>Now that we have defined roles, its easy to classify the documentation
>have now.  Obviously, the content creator doesn't have to worry about
>performance issues, so perhaps that info would go into the
>section.  Likewise for information about logging.  Conversely, people
>writing a custom generator obviously fall into the Programmer
>and they would probably know not to have to stumble into the
>"Administrator" section.

A content creator wouldn't have to know, but everyone else would.  
Profiling XSLT, efficient generators, DOM vs. SAX in your components, 
making your component cacheable, store settings.  These are all 
performance related but they aren't all the domain of the

>To sum up, Cocoon was developed with SoC in mind.  IMHO, the current
>documentation managed to comingle the concerns, so we ended up with 4
or 5
>different places that something could go.  If we mirror the SoC model
>the documentation, I think we'll end up with some successful and

I think this is a bad idea for the reasons stated above.

Since it's Super Bowl season here in the U.S., I'll use a (American) 
football analogy.  Before Cocoon, in the heady days of just JSP, ASP, 
and PHP, it was a pickup game at the park.  The role of quarterback is

constantly changing who it applies to and everyone's scrambling in all

different directions.  People generally enjoy themselves and are
to the idea that people should be assigned roles and stick with them. 

Then another group of people comes by that wants to join in the game. 

No one knows each other and there are a lot more fumbles and people are

more likely to get hurt because they don't know the rules to the game.

Cocoon is getting closer to league play where people get on the team as

a quarterback or as a center or as a wide receiver.  The have a 
particular role and they serve that role well, but they need to know 
what the other folks are doing.  They need to have flexibility and be 
able to adapt to the other roles when the need arises.

These are, of course, my opinion on the matter.

- Miles

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