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From Irving Salisbury <>
Subject Re: Time to go back to JSP. Cocoon just isnt ready.
Date Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:03:32 GMT

Because people are going to flame you, I thought maybe I'd send an email 
agreeing with you ;-)

When I first started using cocoon, it seemed weird and akward.  It took 
about 2-3 months of really digging in and trying to use it.  This was 
before there were good books out, of which there are 2 really good ones 
that really cut the learning time down. We have now used it successfully 
on 4 major projects, all at fortune 100 companies.  I think it is the 
greatest thing since sliced bread, and so do our customers.  If I had 
made any kind of snap judgements on it, I might have disappeared after 
two weeks as well.  I also agree that this community, while I have only 
been actively watching it for a couple days now, has really tried to 
help Robert out and provided good answers.  Plus, the bug listed is with 
XSP, which I have yet to use on any of my projects because it is quirky 
at best.  There are so many other good things in cocoon, I'd hate to 
throw them all out because of this one thing.


Steven Noels wrote:

> Robert Simmons wrote:
>> I have seen a plethora of new people come on this list and then just
>>  vanish.
>> Comments are invited.
> That's a quick decision for someone who has been around here for only 2
> weeks:
> Then again, we should feel honoured because of the email avalanche you
> caused during that short period, in comparison with:

> Anyway: :
> "In 4 years of college I knew more about computers than all of
> my profs together. Why? Cause I taught myself. Teaching one's self is
> rewarding but difficult. You MUST struggle. You must figure things out
> the hard way."
> Pardon me if I find your decisions somehow 'unstable'. I find it a pity
> to see you post this kind of judgement after so many people have been 
> actively trying to help you (and still do). Sure there is stuff that 
> Cocoon fails to do. I just think you are the type of person who will 
> always find something that will warrant _not_ using something you 
> haven't created yourself.
> In case you start wondering why I'm so up-close and personal about 
> this: you really seem to forget this is _not_ a product, but an open 
> source _project_, envisioned, created and supported by a community of 
> real people. We are not being protective about our work, and we will 
> readily admit its problems, but if all we get is yet another "gee I'm 
> gonna leave 'coz this sucks" reply from you, I'm pretty sure I won't 
> be the only one who just stops reading your mails.
> Oh well - flame me, I can handle it. I'm sick of seeing nice people 
> trying to help you, and you just spreading FUD in return. This is the 
> third inflamatory email I composed to you during the past few days, 
> and this time, I won't refrain from sending.
> If you are such a top dog, consider contributing.
> Take care,
> </Steven>

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