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From "Konstantin Piroumian" <kpiroum...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Cocoon Competence Center Updates
Date Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:44:10 GMT
From: "Robert Simmons" <derisor@arcor.de>

> Is not cocoon's power or anything else that I'm arguing with. There is an
> extremely serious bug in cocoon that is causing me to not be able to use
it
> at all. It is clear that cocoon was developed to be a single solution and
to
> not integrate with technologies such as application servers.

This is not true. If Cocoon does not integrate with a particular application
server then this doesn't mean that it was done intentionally. You can easily
see even from comments in the source that Cocoon were used with WebSphere,
WebLogic, iPlanet and several other servers.

>The classloader
> issue, http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580,  would
make
> it ridiculous for me to do anything in cocoon. If I have to deploy all 100
> EJB libs of the company I work for in cocoon as well as in the application
> server, than my colleagues would rightly laugh themselves silly. In fact I
> cant believe this issue even exists in a product this mature. I am looking
at
> probably 3 months to get this fixed, minimum, if it is ever fixed. At that
> point I will have to wait for a release of the product, as my company
would
> throw me at the door for putting up a bleeding edge CVS build.

The good thing in open source is that you always can take care of any bug
yourself and provide a patch which would be definitely applied if it's of a
good quality.

>
> So basically I'm screwed when I comes to my book and when it comes to my
> company. Cocoon is pretty much out. I guess I have to throw out 2 weeks of
> agonizing work and I dot know how many emails and recode the whole damn
thing
> in JSP. Lovely.

I'd recommend to use Struts in case you choose JSP. But of course, that
depends on requirements to your project. If you have to deal with various
output formats, need customizable pages, need integrations with external XML
datasources then it's worth trying to overcome Cocoon bug in some way: try
to fix it, raise this issue on cocoon dev list, try to play with your app
server settings (maybe declare those jars in Manifest - it's possible
according to Servlet Spec), etc.

--
  Konstantin

>
> Well, I suppose it could be worse. I dot see much market for Cocoon
> developers anyway.
>
> -- Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <dabbous@saxess.com>
> To: <cocoon-users@xml.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Cocoon Competence Center Updates
>
>
> > Hy Robert,
> >
> > I appreciate your honesty.
> > I hope, you keep with us. I think you can really help
> > getting this into the next generation...
> >
> > just a few of my experiences if you don't mind ...
> >
> > 0.) i use to install minimalistic components when
> >      i start investigating. in this sense i only
> >      needed tomcat-4.*.* to start. just installed it
> >      and ready to go...
> >
> > 1.) When i started working with cocoon i first got
> >      very very frustrated:
> >      sitemap not working as i expected
> >      actions, uhh?
> >      logicsheets, sounds good, howto???
> >      and so on ...
> >      I even did not know, what to ask in detail.
> >
> > 3.) very slowly i got a first overview. i only scratched
> >      the surface and one day (after about two weeks) i got
> >      hit by realizing the hidden mightiness of the beast.
> >      "Hey that's great, this works fine,
> >       ahh what easy going here and there..."
> >      Until now i still only was playing with the very
> >      basics (sitemap, generator, protocol handlers)
> >
> > 4.) After reviewing my first experiences with cocoon i came
> >      to the conclusions:
> >      - its very complex
> >      - it has great oportunities
> >      - it is "complex documented"
> >      - it moves fast
> >      - it neads quality assurance to get mature
> >
> > My decisions:
> >
> >      - use cocoon in my own projects
> >      - help cocoon users to get a clear understanding
> >        with less frustrations
> >
> > I'm still happy with cocoon and im still only using the very
> > basics. I am curious where i can get with XSP and ESQL ;-)
> >
> > regards, hussayn
> >
> >
> > Robert Simmons wrote:
> > > Fine ... I'm beginning to loose interest to be honest. Right now I
cant
> do
> > > anything with XSP with cocoon at all. because of the classpath bug it
> looks
> > > like two weeks of my work are about to explode in my face. Sigh.
> > >
> > > -- Robert
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <dabbous@saxess.com>
> > > To: <cocoon-users@xml.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:12 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Cocoon Competence Center Updates
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Hy, Robert;
> > >>
> > >>Thank you very much for the contributions.
> > >>
> > >>I propose to move parts of your contrib into another page.
> > >>
> > >>reasons:
> > >>
> > >>1.) this page deals with deploying cocoon. it should not cover
> > >>     essentials of cocoon internals. this is the next story to be
> > >>     covered, once cocoon is deployed.
> > >>
> > >>2.) i want this document to be for "beginning beginners", (we used
> > >>     to name them nebies ;-). Yes we should prepare a doc, that
> > >>     contains your hints and tips, but maybe this is an add on
> > >>     page ?
> > >>
> > >>if nobody complains, i will move your contribs to another page, but
> > >>keep the super esssentials in the doc (and point to the new pages
where
> > >>relevant)
> > >>
> > >>is that ok for you Robert?
> > >>
> > >>regards, Hussayn
> > >>
> > >>Robert Simmons wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Greetings, I have added the following information to the cocoon
> > >>>competence center page on installing cocoon. Please feel free to
review
> > >>>the following sections and smack me around if I said anything
incorrect.
> > >>>The new sections are.
> > >>>
> > >>>* Deploying on an application server.
> > >>>* What is essential?
> > >>>
> > >>>-- Robert
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> > >>SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> > >>Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> > >>50935 Köln
> > >>Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> > >>Fax:     +49-221-56011-20
> > >>E-Mail:  dabbous@saxess.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > >>FAQ before posting.     <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> > >>
> > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail:     <cocoon-users-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org>
> > >>For additional commands, e-mail:   <cocoon-users-help@xml.apache.org>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting.     <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> > >
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> > > For additional commands, e-mail:   <cocoon-users-help@xml.apache.org>
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> > SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> > Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> > 50935 Köln
> > Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> > Fax:     +49-221-56011-20
> > E-Mail:  dabbous@saxess.com
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting.     <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:     <cocoon-users-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:   <cocoon-users-help@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question  has not already been answered in the
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>
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>
>


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