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From Kjetil Kjernsmo <>
Subject Re: Is it a good idea to avoid the use of xsp ?
Date Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:40:55 GMT
On Thursday 12 September 2002 14:49, Gernot Koller wrote:
> Hi!

Hi Gernot and everybody!

> I'm very new to cocoon and by now only have a very vague idea about
> xsp and issues that might arise using xsp. So what do you think ? Is
> it a bad idea to use cocoon but not use xsp ? 

I have just returned to my computer after a few days being disconnected 
and reading Matthew and Carsten's book on Cocoon (but of course, I 
haven't really digested it all). Previously, I have only read some of 
the pages on the Cocoon site, and basically what got me over to Cocoon 
was the separation of concerns. I've written some Perl CGI scripts, a 
few simple PHP things, but also tried to develop some things for 
Postnuke. That was a few weeks in intense agony... :-) After that 
experience, I decided the separation of logic from the rest was a 
necessity for more complex applications. I knew that Cocoon had it, but 
I had no idea how to do it. 

Coming through chapters 8 and 9 in Matthew and Carsten's book, I 
realized that _this_ is what I came for. It's just really beautiful. I 
must congratulate the architects of Cocoon for the brilliant ideas that 
are behind all this! 

But, I didn't like XSP. OK, you can do things rapidly, and simple 
applications, like those I wrote in PHP myself can probably be done 
better or at least as good in XSP. In addition, you've got the 
logicsheets that helps a lot, but I'm not convinced I would love to 
read logicsheets not created by myself... Separating the logicsheets is 
a good idea, but you know, people don't like writing things like:
I would say, pick any PHP application, and you'll most probably see a 
lot of code like:
if ($something == 1) {
	echo "<p><strong>Something is non-zero</strong>";
So, people embed their HTML-code in the flow, in spite of that they 
could end and open PHP. Then, there's indentation that makes code 
readable, but that would usually be different for XML elements and 
program logic, which makes the code a lot harder to read.  

Well, I guess it wasn't a lot of new things in this post, but if I have 
totally misunderstood strengths of XSP, I hope somebody would let me 
know... :-)


Kjetil Kjernsmo
Astrophysicist/IT Consultant/Skeptic/Ski-orienteer/Orienteer/Mountaineer

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