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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoli...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
Date Sat, 29 Jun 2002 02:43:53 GMT
This message shows a lot more of a productive attitude (though a 
lamentous one).  I too am working on a
late webapp based on Cocoon.  Maybe we can collaborate.  What specific 
parts are you having problems with?
What documentation did you find lacking or missing, perhaps together we 
can improve it.

-Andy

John Austin wrote:

>This all on the same day that President Bush said he would be the first 
>President to get a colonoscopy ... "To support our war on Terrorism". 
>
>I saw him say that on CNN and laughed for an hour ... What's he gonna 
>do ? Drop leaflet photos on Iraq showing the inside of his butt-hole ? 
>[Caption: Pucker Up Saddam!]
>
>On Friday 28 June 2002 04:20 pm, you wrote:
>  
>
>>Dear List,
>>This thread was false from the beginning. You just have to look at
>>the subject to expose the authors real intension - a simple reckoning
>>- and he even gives us the reason of his frustration: the end of his
>>    
>>
>
>I take exception to that remark.
>
>  
>
>>>short vacation in beautiful Chicago
>>>      
>>>
>
>I was actually in Naperville for five days.
>
>  
>
>>having to resume his mind-numbing work somewhere between
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Toronto and Montreal.
>>>      
>>>
>>Catching himself dreaming of
>>
>>    
>>
>>>...thirty-year-old mainframe operating system
>>>(MVS) produced by IBM back in the sixties and it's patching system
>>>(SMP4)...
>>>      
>>>
>
>A thing of beauty about twenty years ago when multiprogramming was  
>hard to do BUT abandoned as a professional pursuit by this author 
>BECAUSE of it's mind-numbing complexity. If I had stayed at it I'd be 
>wealthier today but much older and fatter than I am now. 
>
>Since MVS, I have worked on VM/SP; VAX/VMS; SunOS 4.1.?; HP-UX 8, 9, 10;
>Linux; OS/2 and it's evil cousin. I have done C, C++, Perl, Java and a 
>bunch of web stuff ECMAScript; HTML, CGI. Oddly enough, my pre 
>object-oriented C looked a lot like the code from my PL/1 period.
>
>  
>
>>he wisely diagnoses
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Maybe I'm getting old
>>>      
>>>
>>but afterwards the retraction:
>>    
>>
>>>it can't just be my age.
>>>      
>>>
>>and he puts the blame on cocoon, which is certainly much younger, and
>>full of vigour...
>>    
>>
>
>So Cocoon can deflower maidens faster than I ? The only vigour around 
>here is my 15 year old son with the 12 percent body fat and a cannon 
>for an arm who wants to be a quarterback. The guy who wakes me up in 
>the morning demanding I spot his 50 kg bench press. (At least HE takes 
>my advice ocassionally: "you need to start doing 30 minutes of cardio 
>every day")
>
>  
>
>>sorry, but this is poor, like most reactions that followed.
>>The defeatist subject line obviously attracted and encouraged others
>>to take the pressure off themselves.
>>    
>>
>
>Actually, I can't afford to give up. I have a product three quarters 
>built for a client who wants to give up. Today, I secured enough 
>funding to complete my Beta. When it works sucessfully, I will win the 
>client back. At that point I will have enough time and money to do this 
>Open Source thing part time. If I fail, I might donate part of the 
>project as an example just before I move in to my car.
>
>  
>
>>The spurious argument: Lack of documentation. This is not really new
>>to someone who has read the documentation, because even there it is
>>an issue. But for being more comprehensive the following issues are
>>not really new either:
>>    
>>
>
>It's not spurious. There have been a TON of people agreeing with me and 
>discussing the issue. Even YOU agree that the docs are lacking.
>
>  
>
>>- Developers are saying contribute but mean fuck you.
>>- The Cathedral and the Bazaar
>>    
>>
>
>Read it when I was learning RCS/CVS. Also read the later stuff that 
>leaked out of the Redmond death star.
>
>  
>
>>- Attacking $cocoon-book authors
>>- Defending $cocoon-book authors
>>    
>>
>
>When in doubt ... blame the victims ...
>
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>
>  
>




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