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From Bertrand Delacretaz <>
Subject Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
Date Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:24:04 GMT
Hello John,

On Thursday 27 June 2002 04:41, John Austin wrote:
>. . .
> After just a few hours of poking around I have decided that it will be
> much simpler for me to simply hand-code a whole hat-full of servlets
> than to try and pull any meaning out of Cocoon and it's documentation.
>. . .

First thanks for expressing yourself on this mailing list, many people might 
have just quit without saying anything!

As is the case with many open-source projects (or any project during its 
construction phase), I think understanding Cocoon is possible in a few hours, 
but requires some help from the community.

You're right that the documentation is far from perfect at this time, but I 
think the level of support that you might get by asking focused questions on 
the mailing lists is way superior to many commercial support offerings. 

This will usually make up for the lack of consistency or depth of the 
documentation, although your mileage may vary depending on what components 
you're asking about (which might also tell you which components are most 
well-known and/or stable).

There also a few books coming out, notably Matthew Langham and Carsten 
Ziegeler's excellent one [1], which should be available now or shortly. That 
doesn't answer your concern today but should do so soon.

I don't think Cocoon is out-of-control today, it's just being evolved at an 
incredibly quick pace by a great but loosely-coupled team of developers. Not 
being able to contribute code today, I'm watching what's going on in 
amazement and learning a few lessons about why some projects (like Cocoon 
IMHO) work and others don't..

Keeping up with the pace is hard and you're right that it is hard to find out 
what you can reasonably use today and what are still moving targets, among 
the many available components.

Hopefully the current documentation effort will make this better, 
but in the meantime I'm confident that with a little help from the community 
it is very possible to get a lot of productive work done today with Cocoon!

 Bertrand Delacrétaz (,

 buzzwords: XML, java, XSLT, cocoon, mentoring/teaching/coding.
 disclaimer: eternity is very long. mostly towards the end. get ready.

[1 ]

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