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From Argyn Kuketayev <>
Subject RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
Date Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:50:29 GMT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Sheffer []
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 10:34 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:32:21  
>  Denis Thierry wrote:
> >
> >To summurize my feeling on that:
> >You have 2 worlds: business world and open-source world. If 
> >you cannot deal with that stay sticked to the first!
> >
> I really don't understand this attitude.  There aren't two
> polar opposite camps in the software world, commercial and
> open, battling in a cold war.  There's a continuum.  I use 
> neither commercial nor open tools exclusively.  I use them 
> together, and use the best tool for the job.  If the tool
> is open, great!  I can justify the investment in time and/or 
> money on learning to use an open tool that I would have spent 
> on a commerical license.  My expectations are different for
> open tools:  I can accept less than commercial quality docs,
> I can accept a higher level of effort on my part to get up
> and running, I can accept an investment of my time to really
> explore a tool's capabilities. 

> I can't accept a herculean 
> effort required to get a level of understanding and proficiency
> necessary to be productive.  This goes beyond docs and includes
> the complexity inherent in using a tool.  I've used many tools,
> commercial and open, that made me think "why does this have
> to be so complicated to use?"  More often than not, I don't
> use them very long.

I don't think that Cocoon is complex. I blame the very poor documentation.
When you know how it works, it's simple. So, you have to get very familiar
with the source codes to use Cocoon. I don't like it. I'd rather look under
the hood only when I have non-trivial problems. 

Unfortunately, with Cocoon you have to do it all the time. E.g., Cocoon's
samples are just to say "hey, we have samples!". Look at database samples.
C'mon guys, aren't you targeting an enterprise environment?! DB is the
centerpiece of the enterprise, everything's rolls around it. DB integration
must be covered thoroughly. 

I also think that there must be a couple of PDF manuals (dev and
deployment), which contain all docs currently written. So, I can print them
and read, instead of browsing web site.

Ok, the last bullet: books. When those so long awaited books on Cocoon are
released, I'm afraid that Cocoon will not be the same. I'm afraid they will
be outdated. 

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