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From "Ricardo Trindade" <>
Subject RE: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing
Date Fri, 28 Jun 2002 18:57:37 GMT
I definitely have to agree. I have been following cocoon from about 3 months
now, and it look promising. However, the developers seem to be more
interested in working on the new features and 2.1 branch than stabilizing
and documenting the stable release.

Being a developer myself, I can understand that perfectly, but if you want
Coccon to succeed you should listen to the criticism. Several people have
stated (I include myself) that, while being experienced developers, they
took far too long to become productive in Cocoon. That time could have been
a fraction if proper docs where available. I think the project is needing
much more docs and stability, the features are ok.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Austin []
Sent: sexta-feira, 28 de Junho de 2002 7:33
Subject: Re: Giving up! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing

On Thursday 27 June 2002 05:26 pm, you wrote:
> I understand the complaints and agree with many of them, but I think
> that they are somewhat abstract or ambiguous.
> may you detail them so that they can be solved?

Ok. Where is the documentation for Pipeline Components ?

Where is an in-depth description of each type of G enerator ?

> it would be very helpful for all of us.
> Thanks to all the contributors to the cocoon project, it is a great
> product, but
> remember that one of the principles of programming is being humble to
> accept that things can be improved.
> Regards
> for example
> Documentation is scarce         [ what part is scarce? all of it?

There is no depth to the documentation. One doesn't have to go very far
to run out of documentation.

> XSP? ] Documentation is outdated       [the same]
> few examples                          [which functionality needs more
> examples urgently?]

The Tutorial. How do I write a simple data-base backed application ?

> stabilization                             [any comments? ]
> etc

As I said earlier, it feels like there is a stampede to generate
features and no discipline to complete the existing project. I suspect
that this is due to personality traits and intellectual capabilities of
some of the developers. In my career, I have encountered many
superlative individuals. A small number of these have immense
capacities for rote memorization. This is a distinct ability of some
individuals and is as great a gift as abstact reasoning and other
intellectual skills. Unfortunately, gifted individuals often fail to
realize that half of us are below average in everything ;-). Hell,
we're all below average in something.

Anyway, I have seen a lot of code written by genius-level people who
fail to understand that many of us do not memorize well.

The documentation is as important as (more important than) the code
because nothing gets widely accepted unless it is understandable. Look
at Perl as an example. Larry had some weird ideas and implemented them.
These didn't hold the language back BECAUSE the documentation was
excellent. Now Cocoon has lots of new ideas but it lacks explanation
through documentation. The FAQ ... lets not go there ... I can never
even FIND an FAQ  ...

The slope of the learning curve is steep and there is nothing to hold
on to. When you do find a hand-hold, it breaks off!

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