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From "Bjarne Jensen" <...@ruc.dk>
Subject SV: Looking for a page description language
Date Tue, 22 May 2001 09:47:42 GMT
I'm also writing a paper and trying to have a extreme separation between
content, logic and style. Have you found any good articles or books on the
subject of separation between content, logic and style? If so, please send
the references to me.

I have not made any “XML language that is powerful enough to model all
possible items that could be present on a web page”. But I think that ANY
XML-document could be converted to HTML, WML etc. XSL is a great language
for doing that, but other languages could be used as well. A common output
format of XSL is FO (Formating Object) and that is like a “universal”
language for 2D paper layout and content. (Just like WML could be for mobile
devices)

How you structure your XML-document is normaly depending of the content.
Maybe you would succeed in making an XML-format that (just like FO for
paper) contains all information that is necessary for making sites in HTML,
WML etc. But that would be an enormous work I think (look at FO). Would FO
be a part of your language? Before this is useful you have to convert your
data to that format (by using XSL and a database or so). And afterward you
have to make sites that uses this format. When this is done. How would you
put the changes back in the original database? Program the reverse process?
Maybe it would be better to tolerate any XML-document, and make different
XSL-files depending on the XML-document and the output format. Anyway I like
your idea  - and for some sites and some sort of data – it might just work
:-)

Hope I haven’t misunderstood your point.
-Bjarne


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Tobias Kiesling [mailto:tobias.kiesling@web.de]
Sendt: 22. maj 2001 11:03
Til: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
Emne: Looking for a page description language


Hi all,

I am a student and I need some help for a paper I am writing. I would like
to
compare a system I developed with the help of cocoon (especially the
architecture of that system) to similar systems. But first let me explain
the
system we developed:

In the scope of a university course we implemented a simple web information
system with the help of Cocoon. This surely is no production system, but
rather more academic. We tried very hard to have an extreme separation
between content, logic and style (this is what cocoon is about). This led to
the creation of an XML language that should represent the pages to be
returned to the client, before fetching data from the database and
transforming the document to the proper transformation medium (we used HTML
and WML).  The language was created as a more abstract view on a web page
that should be independant of the particular presentation media, but
powerful
enough to model all possible items that could be present on a web page.
Additionally the language had to be independant of the underlying data model
(i.e. the structure of the data fetched from the database).
The language can be regarded as a kind of generic page description language
that could be used to model any kind of web page (of course this is an
unproofed claim!).

My question is, does anybody of you have developed a similar language for
similar purposes. I think that a variant of such a language is needed in
almost every system that uses cocoon, even the samples in the cocoon
distribution use such a page description language. What I am looking for is
a
language that is generic enough to be used with every type of presentation
medium (HTML, WML, VoiceXML, Braille, etc.), but is independant of all those
media and additionally is independant of the data model of the data to be
presented in this page.

I have already been looking around for any trace of such a language, but I
didn't find any. If someone of you has developed a similar language, or
knows
of it, please let me know.

I would really appreciate any help on this!

Thanks in advance,
  Tobias

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