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From "Piroumian, Konstantin" <>
Subject Re: General Question about Cocoon
Date Fri, 25 May 2001 10:13:22 GMT
Just my $0.02...

> > >The developer/webmaster has to translate HTML files sent to him by
> > >designers into appropriate stylesheets.
> >
> > is there any tool to do this translation ? otherwise,
> > this is a *very* error prone process. can not image
> > how much it requires to "translate" many pages
> > of a website. especially if front end keep changing.
> You do this once per website, not once per page. How often do you design a
> logo that appears on every page of a brochure?

You can "translate" many pages automatically with XSplit. You can find it
somewhere at: . You define an XML, an HTML and
maybe a DTD, and you get an XSLT.
But for me, it's better to do XSL coding manually. I design the look and
feel of my pages in Dreamweaver and then I use HTML from the Dreamweaver
file in my XSL stylesheet.

> > so it requires a runtime to do non-runtime work.
> It doesn't require it, it's just more convenient (IMHO). Why would I use
> two different tools, one for development and one for deployment? Plus, I
> like to write bug-free software, this is impossible if you use two
> different tools.

To check your XSLS you can use one of this tools:
    - XML Spy (if you use Windows) - it enables you to create XMLs and XSLs
and see the result. It supports IE default transformer (msxml 3.0) and
additionally you can install or configure other transformers, such as Saxon
and Xalan.
    - emacs extensions (I am not sure for the name), simply search the
archives. It also has capabilitites of editing of XML and XSLTs with
possibility to see the result of transformation.
    - command line capabilities of Xalan (maybe other transformers has the
same feature).

> > it sounds cocoon simply can't provide this developement
> > convenience.
> Cocoon is not the solution for everyone and everything. It's an amazing
> tool for down-and-dirty developers. If you prefer a more manual,
> GUI-oriented development process, you should look into something else.
> Basically, if you write your HTML pages by hand using vi or emacs, then
> you'll love Cocoon. If you write your HTML pages with Dreamweaver or
> Frontpage, you'll hate it.

They are for different purposes: Dreamweaver or FrontPage are more
convenient for page design and layout definition (e.g., to choose a good
color scheme) and most web developers use them only to get some HTML from
them and put into their hand-coded files.

> If you think of a website as one big XML-based application, you need
> Cocoon. If you think of it as a collection of documents, you can choose
> between any number of tools.

Cocoon can be useful for a collection of documents too. If you need
customized views of your documents, depending on the language, user agent
(browser). Also, you can provide you documents in different formats: HTML,
WML, PDF, Plain text, even RTF, maybe MS Word and Excel.

In my opinion, Cocoon can be very useful for any web site.

> Ulrich

    Konstantin Piroumian.

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