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From Ulrich Mayring <>
Subject Re: 4 New Classes
Date Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:36:04 GMT
"Piroumian, Konstantin" wrote:
> > I think Schema validation is enough for most cases. If you require more,
> > you can use any of a number of plug-in architectures, like Schema
> > Adjuncts or so.
> I am not familiar with it, is that a part of XML Schema specification?

There are various efforts underway, I don't know about their status. I
just happened to hear about Schema Adjuncts on XML DevCon 2001.

> > Another reason why I don't like XForms - it doesn't play well with
> > existing standards.
> Standarts of what?

XML, XML-Schema, XSL(T) - these specs are written very differently from
XForms. XForms doesn't say how to integrate it with other XML-standards,
it uses a mythical XFormsProcessor to do all the hard work. An example:
if we take for granted that XML-Schema will live, then anyone writing a
validator should at first support XML-Schema. Then, if he needs more
validation, he can expand on it - but first use the existing standards,
don't always invent new ones.

> I don't quite understand what do they mean by processor - what is the
> purpose of it and how it will work.

They basically define what an XFormsProcessor should do, much like XSLT
defines what an XSLT processor should do. But XForms shouldn't need its
own processor, it should make use of the other standards. For
transformation it should use XSLT, for example.

> As I understand, XForms are closer to
> XHTML forms and supposed to replace them in browsers.

There's no browser that I know of, that supports XForms. I know of no
plans either.

> But I like ideas that
> they used to separate presentation and data. I treat XForms as a unified
> form description meta-language. I think that everybody in web development
> deals with forms and everybody has his own meta-language, so why don't use a
> standart?

Yes, I don't keep anyone from using it, but I will wait for something
better. Forms alone are pretty senseless, they will always be integrated
in some kind of workflow. So I'll wait for a workflow standard and if
that standard uses XForms internally for form handling, then I don't
care. But XForms itself doesn't help me, it doesn't bring anything new
to the table.

> Yes. I think that Cocoon 2 is the best tool for web application
> implementation and form handling, but anyway you'll need some special
> taglibs or so to describe your forms.

And your application, and your workflow and your data model and your
validation ... :-)


Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Systementwicklung

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