Mailing-List: contact cocoon-users-help@xml.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Message-ID: <39520DB7.BC0D0B70@apache.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:59:35 +0200
From: Stefano Mazzocchi <stefano@apache.org>
Organization: Apache Software Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: The User is the King (was: Cocoon Competitors)
References: <6D8A17398E28D3119F860090274DD7DBF13C7B@pces.cadlab.it>
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Alessandro Bottoni wrote:
> 
> Hi Cocoons,
> 
> [Montefin wrote: ]
> Well, I've always preferred the term 'Parallel Development' to
> 'Competitor'. It makes for greater cross-fertilization and
> collaboration.
> 
> [Alessandro Bottoni]
> What's wrong with competition? For sure, unfair competion (MS vs. Netscape,
> for example) is bad, but why competition in itself should be bad? I would be
> happy to see two groups of developers compete for delivering the best piece
> of software (and I would be even happier to see that they can make some
> money out of their hard work...). This is what is going on between KDE and
> GNOME, as long as I can see.

what's wrong with competition?

you loose energy by fighting this competition instead of use it for more
friendly collaboration. In fact, the KDE and GNOME people are stating to
get it and talked about merging their two component models into one to
allow component sharing between the projects.
 
> [Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: ]
> > I have more 'flight time' with Cocoon than the others. But I think
> > that's partly a consequence of the time it takes to get Cocoon cooking.
> 
> Ever considered how much intentionality there is in this ;-)
> 
> [Alessandro Bottoni]
> Stefano, I understand you are partially kidding but, please, consider that
> you are writing software for real people that does not have to be educated
> in a special way just to install and use your software. Most of us either
> have no skill or no time to "play" with software: we just need to have the
> "darn thing" running for doing what the software is expected to do (serving
> XML, in this case...).
>
> The need for an easy setup, configuration and use still exist even if you
> create tools aimed to programmers or sysadmins. Programmers are "normal"
> people, too, and do not like to waste their time fighting with unneeded
> intricacies and obscure documentation, do you?
>
> [Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: ]
> Yep, it's harder to create a community out of perfect software... and a
> community is what drives a project in the long run...
> 
> [Alessandro Bottoni]
> What drives an Open Source project, in the long run, is a diffused need to
> support an existing tool that is required for performing some kind of
> important task. As you know, Apache was developed because there was a need
> for a good, free web server. The community coalesced around an already
> widespread server (NCSA) and took care of its development and maintenance.
> The same happened to Linux (coming from the existing Minix) and many other
> Open Source projects.
> 
> I have seen many communities of skilled programmers going nowhere because
> the need for a tool was not diffused and strong enough to convince people to
> work on it (during the week-end, on their holydays, late in the night,
> etc...) or because there was no real software to work on. Internet is full
> of web pages devoted to ambitious projects that do not move since a long
> time.
> 
> You can have a community of programmers around a project if this tool
> already solves a real problem of a community of USERS and gets widely
> diffused and appreciated. So: no satisfied users, no volunteer
> programmers...

really?

let's see... here: there are 500 people on this list and 300 on the
development mail list (more or less).... compared to those "ambitious
projects that do not move since a long time", I guess we are in pretty
good shape, don't you think?

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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