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From "Yahoo" <>
Subject RE: RE: Announce: XML::EP
Date Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:56:42 GMT

It looks like Ozone-XML (
might do what we're all talking about, but frankly it's over
my head. SQL I can understand. When you start getting into object-relational
mapping, thing like Ozone and Castor I start looking like a dog
who's toy is inexplicably hidden.


|--- Original Message ---
|From: Berin Loritsch <>
|To: "''" <>
|Date: 3/27/00 3:41:09 PM

|>Workflow management -- what do you mean with that? Inter-Cartridge
|>Communication or what?
|Workflow management is the method of processing a form that
is specific
|to a company.  For example, a company wants to allow vendors
to offer new
|products to a retail.  The approval process requires a Manager
that tracks
|a category of products, a buyer, and a pricer for company Y.
 So the vendor
|sends off the form, and the system moves the information through
the different
|approval steps.  A step may comprise of additional information
that needs to
|be entered (what the retailer is willing to pay for the product,
or what the
|retailer is going to charge the customer), or it may be a check-off
|If the form meets certain criteria, the Manager may require
a meeting with
|the vendor--the workflow tool will take care of the arrangements.
 It will email
|the vendor, arrange the specific date and time of the meeting
based on
|parameters in the workflow tool.
|Something like ColdFusion or Cocoon, these things will have
to be hardcoded.
|There are tools like Domino Workflow (kind of heavy handed),
that make building
|the pieces much easier, and rearranging them after the application
has been
|deployed easier as well.
|>What OAS has ist "load balancing" and so on, it means you have
more than one
|>server which appear 
|>to the clients as one. But how many sites are using this feature?
|OAS?  Is that an open source package?  Load Balancing is very
important to
|us.  That's one of the things that Application Servers in general
|>> XML databases are in my view pointless.  We can use any number
of tools
|>> to generate XML from database records.  Using text files
to store database
|>> information is slow at best, and unusable at worst.
|>I agree that text files are slow or unusable for large amounts
of data.
|>relational databases improve the situation, but are far from
optimal for
|>this task.
|>An XML document could be stored in a database as a (DOM) tree
|>together with meta information like the DTD.
|>Relational databases are not very good for such tree (or forest)
|>Another idea could be to store the XML document in two ways
|>a) the textual representation (= XML file)
|>b) indexing information for the nodes and attributes
|>Are there any open-source XML databases?
|Sounds like an Object Oriented Database using DOM Nodes.  There
|Object Oriented databases,out there (check Freshmeat), but none
that I
|know of that are XML oriented.  You may run into the same problems
|Cocoon did with DOMs.  Specifically: even the lightest DOM requires
|times as much memory as the XML document itself, and the tree
|algorithms still need speed improvements.
|Until I see a hard implementation that can out perform relational
|and scales as easily, I will remain skeptical.
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