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From Carsten Ziegeler <>
Subject Re: [C3] Caching
Date Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:14:24 GMT
Steven Dolg wrote:
> Regarding the whole topic
> In your first mail you wrote: "there are too many interfaces which might
> confuse users"
> Mind explaining what you mean?
Sure, see below :)
> IMO a user won't have to deal with many of the interfaces at all - even
> if (s)he uses the pipeline API directly (iow programmatically), not to
> mention when using the sitemap.
> Someone who actually deals with the Cocoon code shouldn't have too much
> trouble - especially when comparing it to Cocoon 2.x.
> IIRC this isn't the first time that someone said "Cocoon 3 is already
> too complicated because of too many/much ..." (e.g. interfaces, modules,
> complexity etc).
I think, I didn't say that (at least not directly) :)

> I mean Cocoon 2.x is at least 5 times as much as Cocoon 3 - no matter
> what kind of metric you use (I'm just guessing here, didn't actually
> measure).
> So how come a considerably smaller/simpler approach is suddenly too
> complicated or too confusing?
Again, I was just trying to make the point that there are already a lot
of interfaces, abstract classes and classes. And I also said that given
the functionality we want, there might be no other way.
Comparing Cocoon 2 with the pipeline api is comparing apples with
oranges. I'm just talking about the pipeline stuff we have and without
further thinking one would expect four interfaces (a pipeline, a start,
an end and middle parts)

But we have Pipeline, Consumer, Finisher, Producer, Starter,
XMLConsumer, XMLProducer, followed by a bunch of abstract classes - and
even with a Cocoon 2 background, you might be a little bit lost as you
don't see a generator, transformer or serializer as an interface.
Now, all the stuff here is for good reason and makes sense, so I guess
we need all of this - and in the end it also makes sense to not use the
Cocoon 2 names. But it would be nice if we could keep this to a minimum
and perhaps take a look if we could reduce something somewhere or
perhaps rename something to make it even easier to use - now this is all
a little bit vague, I know, if I would have concrete ideas I would tell
them. It's just the feeling that what we have atm at least "looks" like
too much.
As Cocoon 3 was not available when I needed a simple pipeline
implementations and as I needed at that point something very quickly, I
wrote my own pipeline api and implementation which is just sax based  -
and now I'm trying to map the functionality I have, to what we have in
C3 and it took me a little bit to find out what interfaces exactly I now
have to implement just by looking at all the names. But maybe it's just me.

Perhaps moving the sax stuff to another module, having the xml-util
module is already enough. Maybe renaming something like XMLConsumer to
SAXConsumer helps as well.

So please, don't consider this as a critics on the whole concept. It's
just about minor improvements if at all.

Carsten Ziegeler

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