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From "Lally Singh" <>
Subject Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
Date Thu, 08 May 2008 09:39:38 GMT
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:10 AM, Joerg Heinicke <> wrote:
> > > Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources
> are only the tip of the iceberg.
> > >
> >
> > What missing Java sources? They are in
> /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.5.0/Home/src.jar
> >
>  Hmm, not for me. Directory exists, but no src.jar inside. So where to get
> it from?

Came preinstalled on my mac.  Did you install the dev tools?

> > > Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks.
> > What sucks? The missing vertical lines? It means a bit more indentation,
> but less visual clutter. And my Mighty Mouse's scroll ball does magic to
> navigate in all directions :-)
>  I have a Logitech MX Revolution, so sidewards scrolling isn't a problem.
> But try keyboard navigation. You are on the 100th child and hit left key. I
> now expect to jump to the parent and on the next hit on left to close the
> parent.

VX Revo here.  There's no way in hell I'm traversing a tree with a
keyboard.  I have a mouse, a good one, and it does everything I want
faster than any keyboard.

I dumped eclipse a while back for being too broken/buggy for my
tastes.  But, when I was using it, I just abbreviated the names in
package explorer.  No problems after that.

Frankly the Mighty Mouse drives me crazy.  Tried it once, almost threw
it against the wall.

> > > Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially
> with Java programs.
> > >
> >
> > Uh? What is "consistency" besides the usual cut/copy/paste?
> >
>  What about Ctrl/Alt/Shift + Left/Right/Up/Down/Page Up/Page Down/Home/End?
> I use these key combinations very heavily in Windows - and try to use
> similar cominations in Mac OS X, but pretty much every program has its own
> combinations. Notebook keyboard with fn seems to complicate it even more.
> Especially annoying in Eclipse fn+Left (which should be Home) jumps to first
> position in file.

Actually the consistency is what I love the most:
  Emacs keybindings (Ctrl-{A,E,P,N,K,Y, etc}) work *everywhere*, even
the single-line textfields like the search box in web browsers.
  Command-left,right,up,down move to the beginning & end of the line
or document.  Same global consistency.
  Option left-right move between words.  Option up/down goes up/down a
page. Again, consistent.

These are the same in almost every program I've used so far.  Every
*other* platform drives me crazy now.

The only time I ever hit the Fn keys are for page up/down in some
programs that don't do Option-* (e.g. bash, which traps those keys,
but can't use them properly), and if I want to use the function keys.
Most mac apps bind menu options to the command key and a letter,
making the function keys useful only for UI functions (e.g. exposé,
spaces) or apps ported from other platforms.

Sorry it's not identical to windows, which was copied by linux, but it
*is* better.

> > > There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the
> CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment:
> > >
> >
> > Install macports and just run "sudo port install subversion"
> >
>  Found and from there
> So at least one problem solved.

Huh, I didn't realize people still run such older versions of MacOS.
Leopard has tools like svn, ant, mvn, ruby, python, etc installed by
default with the devtools.  Only reason I got macports last time was
to install wireshark.

> > > And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at
> least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you
> guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :)
> > Naaaah. I'm very happy with my Mac :-)
>  If I could just say the same ;)

Java 6 is the first time apple's drug their feet for any real amt of
time like this.  Java 5 was a few weeks after the general release, but
nothing like this.  Looks like they're strained for devs between Mac
OS X and the iPhone.

Again, did you install the dev tools off the Leopard DVD?

H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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