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From Grzegorz Kossakowski <>
Subject Re: Servlet service request
Date Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:03:09 GMT
Reinhard Poetz pisze:
> Ralph Goers wrote:
>> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>> I suppose REST is fine for some trivial applications on the web tier, 
> I disagree with this statement. REST is an architectural style and I'm
> sure, following those principles will help you to build applications
> from trivial to very complex.
> I also think that the mentioned "without sessions your apps don't scale"
> argument is bogus. If that was true, HTTP (which is the most prominent
> implementation of REST) wouldn't scale.
>> but many modern web frameworks (i.e. JSF, Spring Webflow, Wicket)
>> require that state be maintained on the server simply because they
>> have a requirement that pages be accessed in specific orders. 
> Using sessions for that purpose is just one way to implement it.
> If you implement a RESTful web tier, your clients (e.g. web browsers)
> have to become more powerful. In times of mature Ajax frameworks, Flex
> etc. this isn't as much of a problem like a few years ago.
> It took me a bit longer than Stefano, but in the meantime I also think
> that web framworks as we know today have already passed their zenith.
> Next generation web frameworks will make it simple to implement your
> webapps following REST and I think that Cocoon with its XML pipelines
> can shine again.
>> I believe even flowscript and Javaflow require this to preserve the
>> continuations.  REST between the web tier and the business tier is a
>> different matter. The business tier should always be stateless and
>> REST (as a concept) works very, very well for that. However, when you
>> start talking REST vs SOA vs RPC the lines can get very blurry. I
>> would contend that it is possible to actually implement something in
>> the business tier that is actually all three.
> yes, definitly possible but IMHO really not disired.
> Although I wouldn't recommend the usage of sessions, I agree with Ralph
> and Carsten that we shouldn't forbid the usage of sessions. From our
> past experiences with our own contracts (e.g. the Cocoon environment
> abstraction, the FOM) we know that all those attempts haven't been very
> successfull over the time.

Nothing more can I add to Reinhard's statements. I agree wholeheartedly with all that has
been said

Since I see valid use-cases for session sharing I'm not going to obstruct changes heading
in that

Grzegorz Kossakowski
Committer and PMC Member of Apache Cocoon

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