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Subject RE: Custom Cocoon 2.2 projects: Alternatives to Maven 2
Date Tue, 29 May 2007 16:25:21 GMT

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Custom Cocoon 2.2 projects: Alternatives to Maven 2
> From: Leszek Gawron <>
> Date: Tue, May 29, 2007 1:06 am
> To:
> Hello,
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> > 
> > I've started with a prototyp of a non-Maven Cocoon 2.2 archetype. It 
> > should be useful to people that want to avoid Maven 2 as build system 
> > for their Cocoon based projects. The mail below, that I sent to the 
> > users list, explains in more detail how this prototyp is supposed to
> work.
> > 
> > Feedback would be much appreciated.
> My first question is: why would people want to avoid maven as a build 
> system if they get from us everything on the plate?: standard structure, 
> archetypes. You do not have to know maven at all and be able to run 
> cocoon app in under 10 minutes.

I can answer that. Like most automated things, when maven works it's
and when it doesn't it sucks rocks. I'm not a maven user, though I'm
taking some
time to read "Better Builds With Maven", and am starting to be convinced
that it's
a useful tool. I tried some simple maven incantation (because if you
don't understand
a tool completely, it's an incantation) and after a lot of output the
process failed because
it couldn't find a dependency. Which one? Couldn't tell you. How to fix
it? Ya got me. Now
I, the newbie maven user, have to actually understand what I'm doing in
order to fix the problem.
I'm willing to do that because I took it on faith to start reading the
tutorial, and from that
it looks like it's worth the aggravation. But for someone who hasn't, I
could see them throwing
up their hands and grumbling "Ant just works", or whatever their
favorite tool is. 

Another reason is that maven is designed for a particular set of users:
Java programmers with good Internet connectivity who have flexibility
in their source code layout. Maven can get around some of those things,
but straying from the default path brings additional pain to the user,
who already is not convinced that maven is a good idea.

Ultimately, people want to avoid maven because no one has taken the time
to sell them on the idea
that maven is a wicked cool tool, and that investing a small amount of
time now in learning
the basics of maven and following its conventions will pay off in a lot
of time and effort saved later. If you ask people to change the way
they do things, you have to give them a motivation.

                                                        J. Toman

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