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From: Mark Lundquist <ml@wrinkledog.com>
Subject: Re: Building changes into the top level sitemap
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:56:05 -0800
To: dev@cocoon.apache.org


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On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:50 AM, Jeremy Quinn wrote:

> I have just been working on an established project that is built from=20=

> 2.2 and I could see the advantages of the new platform.

Yeah, it's awesome.

> However, many perceive 2.2 as almost unusable.

Well, it is nearly unusable, but I guess that will change very soon. =20
This is why it's not been released yet :-)

> It clearly is being used but the procedures are very different from=20
> 2.1 ..... the results can be completely unpredictable ..... it will=20
> compile one minute and not the next, this is very off-putting. If the=20=

> less experienced developers like myself cannot feel confidant with the=20=

> build system for 2.2 what hope do we have of users embracing it?

My point would be, don't assume that "nearly unusable" implies a great=20=

gap to be crossed to reach "fully usable".  My impression is that trunk=20=

isn't pervasively unstable, it's just unstable at a few key points, and=20=

those are being ironed out by the people who also know how to work=20
around, etc. and also how to just plain use the frigging thing without=20=

any documention.  So trunk right now is like riding a wild bear, and=20
there's only a few people who know how to ride the bear.  Two things to=20=

do: (1) tame the bear, and (2) teach ordinary people how to ride a tame=20=

bear!

This is my observation as a relative outsider, i.e.=20
non-wild-bear-rider.  My impression is that (1) is very close.  I'm=20
trying to learn now (even though the bear is still a little bit wild),=20=

so that I can help with (2).

=97ml=97

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On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:50 AM, Jeremy Quinn wrote:


<excerpt>I have just been working on an established project that is
built from 2.2 and I could see the advantages of the new platform.

</excerpt>

Yeah, it's awesome.


<excerpt>However, many perceive 2.2 as almost unusable.=20

</excerpt>

Well, it <italic>is</italic> nearly unusable, but I guess that will
change very soon.  This is why it's not been released yet :-)


<excerpt>It clearly is being used but the procedures are very
different from 2.1 ..... the results can be completely unpredictable
..... it will compile one minute and not the next, this is very
off-putting. If the less experienced developers like myself cannot
feel confidant with the build system for 2.2 what hope do we have of
users embracing it?

</excerpt>

My point would be, don't assume that "nearly unusable" implies a great
gap to be crossed to reach "fully usable".  My impression is that
trunk isn't pervasively unstable, it's just unstable at a few key
points, and those are being ironed out by the people who also know how
to work around, etc. and also how to just plain use the frigging thing
without any documention.  So trunk right now is like riding a wild
bear, and there's only a few people who know how to ride the bear.=20
Two things to do: (1) tame the bear, and (2) teach ordinary people how
to ride a <italic>tame bear</italic>!


This is my observation as a relative outsider, i.e.
non-wild-bear-rider.  My impression is that (1) is very close.  I'm
trying to learn now (even though the bear is still a little bit wild),
so that I can help with (2).


=97ml=97


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