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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: [RANT] The Cocoon website: move on, nothing is happening here
Date Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:51:12 GMT
On 17 Oct 2006, at 20:05, Arje Cahn wrote:

> - Documentation (sorry, Helma). So, it was Stefano's dream to once  
> have a Cocoon CMS and run the Cocoon website with it. I don't think  
> part of this dream was to tuck it away on a hidden location so it  
> will be forgotten forever. How embarissing it is to see Helma  
> working at the GT practically alone on all our docs. This has  
> everything to do with the total invisibility of the documentation  
> website. Let's bring it out into the spotlights. Let's give every  
> committer a login, or better yet, get Daisy to talk to the ASF's   
> authentication server (free advice Belgian guys).

Oh, if anyone would care, here's the documentation to get such a  
thing started: 
37.html and here's a sample: 
daisy/services/ntlm-auth/ Yes, we have pluggable authentication schemes.

You don't need Belgian guys for such little glue jobs, but we would  
be happy to help anyone with questions. What those Belgian guys  
however (in)frequently murmured amongst themselves was: why the  
stupid fixation with SVN as a required content repository for  
official ASF documentation sites? Why can't simply  
be a proxy for ?

> - The Cocoon Wiki went DEAD as soon as it was moved to Moinmoin.  
> What a sin. It might have been for political reasons, I don't know.

JSPWiki used to be a memory-leaking piece of crap so I was happy when  
the MoinMoin migration became a possibility. You should have been  
there when I decided not to wait for Java hosting @ ASF, simply  
rented a server, and installed JSPWiki under the  
domain. Instant success, and instant FUD whether my ambitions with  
that domain were upto ASF standards. It took me a while to forget that.

> I believe the Cocoon Wiki was once the brightest, most innovative  
> and fun place to be if you wanted to get your hands dirty with  
> Cocoon. Whatever happened to the navigation bar we used to have in  
> JSPWiki?? Please! Let's put it back. I don't think I'm the  
> stupidest person on earth, but ever since the Moinmoin Wiki was  
> launched I've NEVER found ANYTHING interesting on it anymore.

While I agree with your sentiments, I can only say that things have  
grown organically into what they are now. It's what "the community"  

A few weeks ago, I was talking with Jeff Turner, with him suggesting  
that it would be better to suggest Daisy instead of Confluence for  
incubating ASF projects who are looking for a website management  
tool. While I'm sympathetic to the idea (obviously), I'm extremely  
reluctant to move into such a direction, as my time to support such a  
thing is limited these days, and the ASF infrastructure peeps are of  
the more demanding type. It's been suggested before, but I stopped  
considering and started laughing when one of the prerequisites was to  
replace our own storage layer with SVN.

Oh well.

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought                              Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at                stevenn at

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