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From Sylvain Wallez <>
Subject Re: [CForms] Streaming out widget attributes?
Date Wed, 02 Aug 2006 19:08:03 GMT
[resent -- seems to have been lost]

Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>> I'm sorry to say that over time, I found Cocoon to be more an 
>> obstactle for complex webapps pages (not talking about flow) than a 
>> real help, and that's why I'm moving away from it. So I don't care as 
>> much as I did...
> Can you give conrete examples on what these obstacles are?

Well, here are some:
- in complex use cases the GUI logic, as Carsten's use case exemplifies, 
becomes spread all over the pipeline, and it becomes increasingly 
difficult to understand what happens where.
- client/server communication with JSON makes it really easy to build 
Ajax apps, but is a pain to produce from Cocoon unless we directly send 
it from the controller, which actually makes Cocoon pipelines useless.
- Dojo widgets are a nice replacement for CForm's styling stylesheets, 
reduce the server load, and again make pipelines less useful.
- enhancing the CForms styling leads to a giant XSL (even if 
modularized) where every possible styling used in the application must 
be present.
- since only CForms has Ajax integration, people are over-using it for 
presentation purposes (e.g. paginated repeater)

Don't get me wrong: Cocoon is a killer for publication. But for webapps, 
other approaches, more Java-centric, are worth considering. My current 
choice is Wicket, which was just proposed for incubation.

Cocoon allows lots of non-Java people to build complicated stuff, and 
this is a major achievement. But I find it easier to write Java if 
you're fluent with it rather than finding workarounds in an XML-centric 


Sylvain Wallez -

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