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From "Andrew Stevens" <>
Subject Re: [RANT] This Maven thing is killing us....
Date Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:45:03 GMT
>From: Ralph Goers <>
>Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 21:16:47 -0700
>Tim Williams wrote:
>>The "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" Principle.  Ant has just worked
>>in the past, I wasn't around or probably smart enough to understand
>>why the move to maven but I can say from a user perspective it "don't
>>work".  I'm over at forrest and, for learning purposes, like to
>>maintain a buildable trunk of Cocoon.  That has been impossible since
>>the move to maven.  I obviously understand that progress happens in
>>the face of this principle, but there are some cases where it should
>>be respected.
>Actually, this is a good point.  It was broken and the move to Maven was 
>(and is) an attempt to fix it.  Requiring a source download of Cocoon and 
>for end user's to perform their own configuration and build was (and still 
>is) seen as unacceptable by many of us.

Personally, as a user, I've never had a problem with this.  It's no harder 
than running the build script for our own application.  Besides, I may want 
to apply the odd patch from JIRA that's not been applied yet in SVN before I 
build it.  With Maven I've then got to mess around managing a local 
repository for the patched version.

>Furthermore, every Maven "customer" has their own way of creating their own 
>Cocoon-based webapp because there just isn't a good standard way of doing 
>it with Ant.  Maven, when it works correctly, will fix this.

>From what I've heard on the list so far, though, the Maven build is a long 
way from working correctly.  Until it does, I'm not wasting my time trying 
to look at Cocoon 2.2, I'm sticking with the 2.1.x branch.

I can't recall seeing lots of bug reports in JIRA saying "the Ant build 
mechanism sucks".  On the other hand, there's nearly 90 open issues for the 
forms block.  Draw your own conclusions as to what users think needs fixing 
and what works well enough...  Then go and do whatever is best technically, 
since what do users know anyway? :-)  We'll catch up again and learn the new 
ways once it's done and working.  But in the meantime don't be surprised at 
the lack of feedback; you haven't yet convinced us it's worth the pain.


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