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From Sylvain Wallez <>
Subject Re: [RANT] This Maven thing is killing us....
Date Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:25:59 GMT
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:

> Now, m2 is theoretically a very good tool :)

Stefano principle: you need good ideas and bad code to grow a community.

The application of this principle in Maven is different than usual, as
it forces other projects (and not only its own developers) to endure the
consequences of its bugs.

And this actually endangers these other projects by forbidding their
developers from concentrating on actual productive work. Cocoon with all
its dependencies is certainly an extreme use case for Maven compared to
all others, and broken builds led some of Cocoon's major contributors to
not even try 2.2 for months. And now we're wondering if users will even
be able to build Cocoon if they dare to download it. The project is in

I discussed with several people from other projects at ApacheCon and
they all report the same kind of problems: non-repeatability of builds.
It works one day, but not the day after without anything having changed.

Maven has gained a lot of mindshare because everybody's talking about
it. Does everybody talk about their Ant build system? No, because it
just works.


Sylvain Wallez -

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