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From Upayavira ...@odoko.co.uk>
Subject Re: [RT] a simple release plan
Date Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:49:28 GMT
Peter Hunsberger wrote:
> On 3/16/06, Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> <snip/>
>> Thus, we have 'one way' of doing it, that people don't want to follow,
>> for their own reasons, and because of this, nothing at all happens, and
>> our community gets weaker by the day.
> 
> Oh, come on. There's no real evidence for this being true. 

This is my opinion, based upon personal conversations over time, and
observations I have heard others make.

> If it is
> happening it is only because people start to spread FUD instead of
> putting some energy into actually trying to work with trunk....

You can view what I say as FUD if you like, although I clearly don't see
it that way. The problem for me is that I don't have the time to invest
in dealing with the sorts of issues that people have already mentioned
in relation to working with trunk. Yes, it can work, if you give it the
effort. But in order to scratch _my_ itch, I currently need to invest in
core infrastructure stuff to get trunk working at all, and it may well
be the sort of thing that I personally am not suited to doing.

>> We need to have the scope for differences, alternative approaches,
>> conflicts, etc, and then switch to the best when a best clearly shows
>> itself. What we have now is one unimplemented ideal that we are
>> supposedly working towards (I'm talking of the community here, not you
>> yourself). And that ideal is for some psychological reason preventing
>> others from engaging with their own ideas. It is that psychological
>> block that I want to find ways to remove. Really, what the technology is
>> that helps to remove that block, I do not care. I just want to see that
>> block removed so that the creativity of the many can flow again.
> 
> Once more I ask: what is that you want to do that you can't currently do?

I want to see active development of trunk by more than a limited few.

>> Carsten has offered a suggestion that _he_ is prepared to implement. I
>> would like to hear other proposals from people of things that _they_ are
>> prepared to implement. Only that way will we move beyond this impass.
> 
> Daniel and Bertrand have already given you a reasonable proposal.

Yes, I liked Bertrand's idea. Not sure which one of Daniel's you were
referring to. What I'm trying to do is encourage people to brin forward
proposals that _they_ are prepared to implement, not ones that _others_
might implement.

> Carsten's proposal sounds reasonable on the surface, but the fact is,
> that it will actually take a lot of focus away from the current trunk.
>  For years people have been saying they need real blocks, now all of a
> sudden, there is a need to split a new fork so that a Spring based
> container can get released?  I don't get it: sure it will help some
> people, so will real blocks.  It seems to me that if the same energy
> was spent getting the current trunk cleaned up that would go into a
> 2.3 release  this discussion)  then the job would be done.

For years some people have been saying they need real blocks, and others
have been wondering what all of the fuss is about.

> Here's an analogy for you: a man gets engaged to a woman he has loved
> for many years.  A week before the wedding his buddies take him out
> for a bachelor party and he falls in lust with a young "dancer" who
> flirts with him (and happens to take a lot of money from his buddies
> without him really noticing).  Should he break off his engagement with
> his fiance to start chasing the young dancer?

That isn't at all what I am proposing. I want to see 'ordinary' cocoon
development happening in parallel with real blocks, rather than ordinary
development stalled while waiting for real blocks.

Regards, Upayavira

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