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From "Derek Hohls" <>
Subject Re: New skin for web site
Date Fri, 10 Feb 2006 06:30:43 GMT
[Coming in late on this discussion... please ignore if "white noise"]

One of my peeves is lack of a printable page - if you are still 
working on this site, please add a "coat-print.css", where areas
such the left-hand menu will be disabled for printing (and maybe
make the main text serif... but that's a more debatable choice!)

>>> 2006/02/10 01:09:37 AM >>>
Hi guys,

I've finally been able to work on this some more. and 

show some changes I've made after your feedback.

Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> hmmm, the search box looks better at the bottom, but it might disappear
> at longer menus. Second thing is that defacto standard for search boxes
> is the top right area.

I've chosen to keep it at the top to keep it visible. Top right might be 
defacto, but the Cocoon logo is there already, so a search box would 
clutter things.

> - I like the new design, it's lightweight and focuses on the content


> - I would only change the bullet points in the menu (black circles) by
> replacing them with light blue squares (same blue as the background
> of the search box).

That would be too light, so I've chosen the color of the headers.

> - IMO we shouldn't change the Cocoon logo but keep the current one.

Makes sense, so I've done that, but I don't like the blue color. I've 
tried changing the color, but I don't have the proper software so it 
came out ugly. Changing the colors of the rest of the page didn't come 
out right either, so basically I think we need to change the blue color 
in the Cocoon logo.

> - I would leave more space above a headline than below. A headline 
should be connected with the text that belongs to it.

Done that, looks better so I've kept it. ;-)

Jean-Baptiste Quenot wrote:
> Looks nice! Much more elegant than the current site, more simple,
> especially the menu. Much easier to read, the font on your new
> skin is bigger and better.


> Difficult to tell what is the best option. I prefer search at the
> top, and it would be worth to insert the Google logo to indicate
> that it is a Google search.

It's a good idea to indicate it's a Google search, so I've added a 
little line which is a link to Google.

> better. And maybe replacing « Apache Software Foundation » with
> « Apache Cocoon » would clearly indicate what the site is talking
> about. In short, cocoon-project-logo.png is more appropriate than
> group-logo.gif.

Right. I wasn't able to recreate the image with the Cocoon title and 
link, so I decided to mimick it with standard HTML and CSS. I like it so 
far, but could put in some more work to make it better, although IE is 
the limiting factor here.

Ross Gardler wrote:
>> - I added some extra HTML to make the accessibility easier and the 
>> unstyled version clearer.
> Hmmm... depends on exactly what you have done.
> We have a great deal of control over the structural elements of the page 
> (<div...> etc.) and over the decorations of the page (navigation for 
> example) but very little control over the HTML used in the content since 
> that is managed by Daisy.

True, but if you disable CSS you can see what I've done. I've basically 
added a "skip navigation" link at the top and an anchor and <hr/> at the 
end of the navigation, just before the actual content. I think you add 
the navigation anyway, since it's not part of the Daisy page.

>> - XHTML 1.0 Strict doesn't allow '+' in the anchor names, at least 
>> according to Tidy. I've changed them to underscores.
> Depends on what these anchor names are, if they are manually entered 
> into the src docs then it is editor error on the part of the sample 
> files used to generate this sample site. If they are auto generated by 
> Forrest we can, of course change this. I'll have to check with the 
> Forrest devs on why we use a '+'

I'm sorry I haven't kept a log of what I've done and to simplify the 
work I've done a pretty print on all HTML files and my diff tools are 
too limited to work around this.

BTW. The abstract div ended up as <div class="abstract"/> when it's 
empty. This gives strange results (all subsequent text is assumed to be 
part of the div), so I've had to add the end tag. I think this is a 
Cocoon bug (or at least one of the components), because I have this 
problem too in my site. So I'd be very happy if you could solve this 
once and for all and let me know. ;-)

Currently there is one strange issue left: when you look at the nav 
section of the samples page (I've added extra "index" items for clarity) 
the list "bullet" should be left of the "SUBDIR" heading. This is true 
for Safari and Firefox but in IE6 it's vertically centered next to the 
list. I'll go on a hunt to fix this, in the meantime the pages are up 
for review and feedback.

BTW do you like the layout of the Notes, Warnings and Fixes? (See 
samples page)

Bye, Helma

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