Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 60082 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2005 03:46:13 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 12 Dec 2005 03:46:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 50839 invoked by uid 500); 12 Dec 2005 03:46:09 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 50712 invoked by uid 500); 12 Dec 2005 03:46:09 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@cocoon.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: dev@cocoon.apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list dev@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 50695 invoked by uid 99); 12 Dec 2005 03:46:09 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:46:09 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests= X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [165.98.153.184] (HELO ags01.agssa.net) (165.98.153.184) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:46:06 -0800 Received: from [10.0.0.7] (apoyo.agssa.net [10.0.0.7]) by ags01.agssa.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBC3jc0i011881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:45:41 -0600 Message-ID: <439CF262.6020909@agssa.net> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:45:38 -0600 From: Antonio Gallardo Organization: AG Software, S. A. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7-1.1.fc4 (X11/20050929) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dev@cocoon.apache.org Subject: Re: [RF] Chainsaws and Seeds References: <43987995.6040507@apache.org> <200512101739.09037.niclas@hedhman.org> <439ABA17.6020803@apache.org> <200512110925.45261.niclas@hedhman.org> <3e1257da0512110703y3dcd08e4nc46bf058cab91cff@mail.gmail.com> <439CB1B6.4050102@apache.org> <439CEFEA.1000800@pacbell.net> In-Reply-To: <439CEFEA.1000800@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.7.5 (ags01.agssa.net [165.98.153.184]); Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:45:41 -0600 (CST) Received-SPF: pass (ags01.agssa.net: 10.0.0.7 is whitelisted) receiver=ags01.agssa.net; client-ip=10.0.0.7; helo=[10.0.0.7]; envelope-from=agallardo@agssa.net; x-software=spfmilter 0.93 http://www.acme.com/software/spfmilter/; X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on agssa.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on ags01.agssa.net X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Old-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=ham version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N dave- wrote: > Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: > >> Mark Lowe wrote: >> >>> Nice charts.. They assume that the same folk that are there at the >>> start of the start line are the same folk that are end or even perhaps >>> middle. Despite having a lot of respect for stefano's achievements and >>> the contribution that cocoon has made, I think the graphs are wrong, >>> or at least fail to account for iterations of staff turnover. >> >> >> >> Hmmm, this is a very valid point, I'll have to think about it some >> more. Hmm... >> > IMHO, it does not matter whether the graphs are right or wrong, I > think the web 2..0 movement has transcended the issue in any case. > > Model Based Architectures and Graphical interfaces have allowed far > less technical people access to complex environments. I think, > although I am not absolutely positive, that a java/pipeline/sitemap is > a better base than perl/python upon which to build such systems. It > is for that reason I posted the following 2 visions in another thread: > > As a first vision, I would like to see cocoon accessible to less > technical people. This could be done with elegant simplicity and a > graphical interface. Here is a good web 2.0 example > http://www.activegrid.com/what/applicationbuilder.php. > > As a second vision, artifacts created by the graphical interface along > with any written code could become the model from which alternative > implementation systems might be generated. For example, a model POJO > could be implementationally persisted in various ways. dave- Should not be this more a Lepido[1] concern? Best Regards, Antonio Gallardo. [1] http://www.eclipse.org/lepido/