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From Bertrand Delacretaz <>
Subject Re: [RT][long] Cocoon 3.0: the necessary mutation
Date Sat, 03 Dec 2005 11:23:18 GMT
I need more time to think about all this, for now here are a few 

Le 2 déc. 05, à 18:59, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :

> ...Dynamic pipelines
> I'd like to be able to write the following in a flowscript:
>  var pipeline = flow.newPipeline("non-caching");
>  pipeline.setGenerator("stream");
>  pipeline.addTransformer("xslt", "normalize.xsl");
>  if (cocoon.matchers.xpath("/foo/bar[@id = '" +
>          cocoon.session.attributes.bar_id + "']", pipeline)) {
>      handleBar(pipeline);
>  } else {
>      wrongId();
>  }

IMHO, being able to use this stuff *outside* of Cocoon, without having 
to learn more than that, would make a big difference. A small facade 
with a clever class loader should make it possible to embed this 
PipelineEngine in most any java environment, not?

After all these years, the really unique thing about Cocoon is still 
the XML-based processing pipelines. Being able to use this as a small 
embeddable component would add a lot of value to our offering.

> ....Tell me your thoughts. Am I completely off-track,...

Again, I need more time to think about all this but I like your ideas 
very much.

Trying to play the devil's advocate, the questions that come to mind are

a) Do we need this?
If we were a company I'd ask about the return on investment: from all 
this, what are the two most important features or components that will 
bring us forward?

b) Are we able to execute this?
IIUC, what you're suggesting amounts to a rewrite of large parts of 

Problem is, it seems like very few of us are currently able to 
regularly dedicate significant amounts of time and energy to the 
development of new things here.

Starting a big "this-new-thing-is-going-to-be-so-good" project sounds 
very risky to me at this time, unless there's a way to do it in small 
steps which each bring something to our users. Or unless someone who 
wants it is able to commit sufficient resources to it, of course...but 
we know that there has to be a community behind such an effort.

> ... or do you also want to build this great new thing?...

I'd love to...but I'm not sure if I have a need for that in my current 
and envisionable projects. And the realities of life won't allow me to 
spend a significant part of my time on it unfortunately.

In the meantime, maybe offering an embeddable version of your "dynamic 
pipelines" thing would be a great help in getting more people to use 
the unique things that Cocoon has to offer. But it's a much smaller 
vision than yours ;-)


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