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From Andrew Savory <>
Subject Re: [RT][long] Cocoon 3.0: the necessary mutation
Date Sat, 03 Dec 2005 17:00:44 GMT

On 2 Dec 2005, at 17:59, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> My impression is that with all these changes, Cocoon will be sexy  
> again. Add a bit of runtime analysis of databases and automatic  
> generation of CForms to the picture, and you have something that  
> has the same productivity as RoR, but in a J2EE environment.

This is the only bit I have a problem with so far ;-)

We need to do -far- more than your technical outline if we are to  
compete with the likes of RoR. We need to focus on the user experience:

* explain -why- you'd use Cocoon (i.e. more detailed user requirement  
descriptions of why you'd add the new features you outline would be a  
massive step forward). A good friend of mine is constantly saying "I  
don't understand why people would use Cocoon, I don't understand the  
use-case for it". Maybe the framework's got too bloated and  
obfuscated for people to understand the need for it?

* we need to make it easier to get up and running (I'm talking about  
packaged distributions that run "out of the box" and Cocoon project  
archetypes in m2). I'd also like to give a massive +1 to Carsten's  
comments about needing tools, though I'd say there's no harm in  
adding some magic in there as well for the people that don't want to  
use the tools just yet.

* dare I say it, we need to make Cocoon not just sexy but also -fun-.


Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited
Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658  Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135
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