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From Carsten Ziegeler <>
Subject Roadmap, Vision and everything
Date Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:34:16 GMT
After the BOF yesterday I think it's clear that in the end we all want
the same - more or less at least. But everyone of us is currently
focusing on a different part/problem or seeing it from a different view

If you look at other open source projects, they have something which we
really lack for years: a roadmap. We really should start creating one,
either on the wiki, in Daisy or in Jira - I don't care where and how as
long as we are doing one. We can add all points in there and then
connect them to a future release. For example, moving to m2 would be one
point we connect to the 2.2 release while the environment revamping will
be connected to a later on. Of course such a roadmap is not fixed and we
can move points back or forth, but the roadmap definitly helps us to see
what we want to do and even more important it helps users to see what's
comming up, where they possibly can help and with a little bit luck when
it will be available.

Apart from that we are talking a lot about a "vision" in the last days.
My vision is "make Cocoon more usable and handable" and for me, we will
meet this vision mostly with the current 2.2 *and* a working maven build
that can then be used for my own projects depending on Cocoon. That will
be a big improvement.

Some of us have a different vision - which I totally agree to as well:
years ago Cocoon was ahead of most other web frameworks - we have lost
this status some time ago and we really need to do something to get at
the top again - or Cocoon will really be obsolete. Yes, we really must
work on this as well and therefore we definitly need more radical
changes. If you look at the famous RoR there is one important point why
people choose RoR: using it is really easy - the users do not care how
it is implemented, they even don't care that they have to use a
different language than java. Now, RoR has its strength in the crud
world - I don't say that we should do the same as RoR does. Cocoon has a
different focus and that's absolutely fine. But I say that we should try
to adopt the ideas behind RoR: making the entry point as easy as
possible (while maintaining the flexibility of course).
Although I agree that we have to change things in the core, this will
not directly bring us new users as they don't care about how the core is
implemented - and they really should not care about that. So just
redesigning/refactoring the core is not enough. We have to think about
how to make everything easier to use, that's the key part for me.
And I think, for that we really need opinions from the users because
they know best what they don't like about Cocoon and what makes it hard
to use it. So I suggest (I think someone else suggested this some time
ago) to make a user poll. We could simply but a form somewhere where
users can anonymously enter some feedback into and we can evaluate the
responses and perhaps we get some more ideas on what we can do. Perhaps
we get some flames or spam but we can simply filter that out.

Ok, so I think, let's move to m2, release 2.2, create a roadmap and
start working on next versions by using more feedback. I think we more
or less agree on all this stuff.

What we definitly need is a list of what needs to be done for finishing
the m2 move. If someone could come up with a list of bullet points, so
everyone could help on this, I guess it should be really easy get finished.

(I would appreciate it if we could remove all the author tags and split
the samples from the blocks as well, but that's an additional point).

Carsten Ziegeler - Open Source Group, S&N AG

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