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From Sylvain Wallez <>
Subject Re: [RF] Chainsaws and Seeds
Date Sat, 10 Dec 2005 19:28:09 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:


> What can we do?
> Two things:
>  1) breath and relax, we are not going to get run over: changing the 
> slope does *NOT* change the nature of the function (they will 
> understand that as soon as they cross that equi-cost point... and 
> complexity grows even faster the more "web 2.0"-ish you become, 
> because there are more and more variables that you don't control that 
> get in the mix)

I think it's an utopical vision: when the equi-point moves to the right, 
people realize that they're reaching the limit of their framwork once:
- it's too late to envision changing for another one,
- they reached a very intimate knowledge of their framework, precisely 
because that point is more far to the right.

What this means is that chances that they switch to another platform 
that can handle high complexity but has a steep learning curve are very low.

Also, we have to consider that it's not only the slope of the other 
technologies that has flattened, but also the slope of Cocoon that has 
become steeper. So the equi-point has moved far right because of the 
combination of these two factors, and getting into Cocoon when you tried 
a framework with an easier initial approach will seem like a impossible 
or not-worth-it task.


> But the ASF contains the "rules for revolutionaries". This states that 
> every committer is allowed to propose an 'internal fork' but there a 
> few things that it's not supposed to do, the most important being, use 
> the name of the same project.
> So, if Sylvain wants to start an internal fork, he can and nobody can 
> stop him, but he has to pick a "codename" that has nothing to do with 
> cocoon and cannot release it to the public (as distribution) before 
> the cocoon PMC allows that to happen.

Ok. Actually, I was surprised by so many people answering positively to 
my RT, and what started as a rant and potential solutions turned into a 
march towards a revolution, in an uncontrolled way.

Now I understand this isn't the way to go to ensure a smooth 
cohabitation between this experiment and the work that has to be done on 
Cocoon. So I will not name it Cocoon-NG, XP or whatever. Searching for a 
name, I saw my cat walk by, and decided to pick up his name for this 
experiment. So that will be "Kiwi", which obviously makes no reference 
to Cocoon.

Let's also calm down all these "vision" talks (which seem to have 
happened already) and work more quielty on some proof of concept with 
this pull-based pipeline API, and see what comes out.


Sylvain Wallez                        Anyware Technologies           
Apache Software Foundation Member     Research & Technology Director

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