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From Thomas Lutz <>
Subject Re: [Poll] We need to align on one point (was Re: [Vision] Knowing When We are Done)
Date Wed, 07 Dec 2005 23:26:15 GMT
Though I am not a dev guy, I can't resist to vote, too. IMHO a mix makes 
no sense. Too make a long story short I made struggled my way into 
cocoon with
-first writing custom actions as I was not aware that I should use flow 
-then switching to flow using JavaScript
-and finally port everything to JavaFlow

JavaFlow is a really nice thing, as some of you have written before, 
everything is in one IDE, it's much easier too integrate the backend 
classes, and though most people in the web area know something about 
javascript, almost nobody really masters javascript. It's easier to 
debug, document with javadoc, and it's compiled and typesafe.

Second argument: It was hard to explain, why I kicked struts out, and 
used cocoon instead. And it was even harder to explain that there is 
JavaScript in the server part. Managers who buy oracle don't like to 
hear things like this...

Last comment: Though this is not the question in this poll, I would even 
kick out the pipeline xml stuff. XML was not designed to be 
"procedural", basically it's a markup language, which focuses on data 

On a recent open source talk in vienna  a committer from RoR was joking 
about the java frameworks and their tons of configuration and even worse 
"flow" description files. Though the RoR approach goes a bit too far for 
a compiled language like java, I do believe it makes sense to stick to 
the language choosen.

So, please :-), only one language, and as cocoon (or whatever it's name 
will be :-) ) is a J2EE framework: _Java_

Sorry for the interference :-), regards,

Berin Loritsch wrote:
> What's your preference for the vision?
> [ ] All web apps written in JavaScript
> [x] All web apps written in pure Java
> [ ] Mix and match (not as simple, but is status quo with today)

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