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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject Re: [Poll] We need to align on one point (was Re: [Vision] Knowing When We are Done)
Date Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:47:11 GMT
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Ralph Goers wrote:
>> None of these.  I have a vision where the business services are 
>> implemented in Java, the web application is defined in a stateful flow 
>> controller (xml config) and the views are generated using pipelines 
>> with standard components.  So my answer is - No programming language 
>> on the server, just configuration.

This is what I was getting at with my wish to see apps defined in terms 
of "given this type of input I want this type of output".

> Shudder.
> That could be a nice add on to Cocoon.  Perhaps a BPL (Business Process 
> Language, an XML standard for what you are talking about) application.

In my prototype of such a system I evaluated all the BPL's of the time 
(and have since updated this again). I rejected them all as being far 
too complex, verbose and too much like a full blown programming language.

What I ended up using was XML Pipelines, a very simple language that
covers far more of the required workflows than any of the specific BPL's

Why is this relevant here?

You would be amazed at how many similarities there are between the 
solution I developed and Cocoon (that's why I was drawn to Cocoon in the 
first place).

> I would argue that what you are talking about is a domain specific 
> language in the guise of configuration (just like your hibernate 
> descriptors and ant scripts).

Sometimes, DSL's bring many benefits, just consider the sitemap.

Do we want to know more or is this a step too far at this stage of 
discussion? I'm aware that t could go off on a horrible tangent and 
we'll never find the real vision, it may be better for me to bring this 
up again at a more appropriate time, after all its an implementation detail.


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