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From Reinhard Poetz <>
Subject Re: [RT] The next shiny thing?
Date Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:39:39 GMT
Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:
> The main problem with our community, IMO, is the lack of focus and 
> persistance. We have so many great ideas, but as large parts of the 
> community always are running towards the next shiny thing and have very 
> little interest in polishing the design, contracts and implementations. 
> We are left with an ever accumulating bunch of half baked ideas with 
> prototype implementations that makes it so frustrating to develop Cocoon.
> After having been around for a couple of years, I start to recognize our 
> development cycle: First a new sexy idea is suggested, and we all jumps 
> up and down shouting out our excitement. Then we might start to discuss 
> design and implementation, and most people lose interest or maybe drop 
> by and complains about that the discussion have become technical and 
> that it bire them stiff. After that some people might even implement it. 
> And as it often takes a lot of work to design and implement cool stuff 
> it takes a while. And when it finally start to get somewhere, people are 
> not even remotely interested anymore because there is something new and 
> shiny to jump up and down and shout about.
> IMO, what I described above is the main source of our problems today. 
> Instead of focus on our core ideas and functionalities, and ensure that 
> we have real high quality implementations of them, we just add still 
> another prototype implementation of something new whithout bothering 
> about how it integrates with the rest of what we have. And we as a 
> community doesn't take repsonse in getting things smooth and coherent.
>                                                --- o0o ---
> So I'm sorry, I will not jump up and down and shout together with the 
> rest of you this time. I will persist and continue with the work in 
> trunk on what I think is important:
> * finishing blocks
> * make the m2 build system work and become the only one
> * binary releases
> * strengthen the contracts
> * improve the quality
> * split up Cocoon in smaller parts
> * deprecate things that not are or not should be used anymore
> * strive for coherence
> * refactoring and rearchitecturing mercelesly
> * 2.2 during Q1
> This work will continue to be evolutionary and incremental. And when we 
> have the block system and have cleaned the contracts and the messy 
> implementation of the core, it will be easy and safe to experiment with 
> new great ideas. And we are getting rather close to this point, we just 
> need to finish what we have started. And for the messines we solve that 
> with refactoring.
>                                                --- o0o ---
> Start a whiteboard prototype if you feel like it, but to me it seem 
> quite risky to try to rewrite everything from scratch, although I have 
> felt the urge myself countless time while struggling with the messy 
> internals. But before you go ahead and rewrite everything from scratch, 
> take some minutes and read why Joel Spolesky thinks that rewriting 
> software from scratch is the:
>  *single worst strategic mistake* that any software company can make
> I suggest that we who want a 2.2 during Q1 continue to work together on 
> getting there.
>                                                --- o0o ---
> For the actual functionality that Sylvain proposed I think much of it is 
> great and I have argued for things similar to some of them earlier. And 
> they can be added in an incremental way.
> But even if I would love to discuss the techical details. And how well 
> pluggable controllers will fit into the blocks architecture. And how 
> cool stuff one can do with pull parsing, especially if we use AXIOM from 
> Axis2, there are more important things to discuss right now:
> Leaving our core offering and rewriting everything from scratch means 
> community and product suicide, don't do it.
> /Daniel

Just can say, thanks, thanks, thanks Daniel for this mail!

Reinhard Pötz           Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach 

{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}


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