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From Sylvain Wallez <>
Subject Re: [RT][long] Cocoon 3.0: the necessary mutation
Date Sun, 04 Dec 2005 10:09:52 GMT
Ralph Goers wrote:


> Now while I agree with a lot of what you are saying I'm not really 
> sure it completely addresses all the issues. For example, while 
> allowing folks to use any container they want might be a good thing it 
> can also make it more difficult if that just becomes one more thing 
> they have to learn about.  Frankly, I'd just say to heck with it and 
> use Spring.

The main point is to have container-independent code as much as 
possible. Providing multiple container integration may not be a goal per 
se, but should not be made impossible. The main point is that the 
pipeline API should be embeddable in other environments.

> At this point I don't think we have to worry about radical changes or 
> the community dying.  Of course, it then makes more sense to leverage 
> Spring WebFlow as I have in mind.  And since Spring is such a popular 
> framework it makes it much more palatable for manager types - 
> especially those who think EJBs suck and Spring/Hibernate is the answer.
> By the way - I'm not interested in Cocoon being sexy. I'm interested 
> in seeing its adoption rate increase, which is a very different thing.

You misunderstood what I said (or I used the wrong word). By "sexy" I 
mean appealing for users, because it makes things easy and fun. If that 
goal is achieved, adoption rate should increase. Being appealing for 
managers is a different thing as this more mean being either buzzword 
compliant or standards (at least defacto ones) compliant.

> As to your sitemap changes, I think what you have in mind is right 
> on.  It wouldn't bother me if in 3.0 we have only javaflow and 
> flowscript for those who want to "roll their own" and webflow for 
> those who prefer a stateful flow.
> As for your comments on Ajax, I don't know if you read it but you 
> should take a look at this entry from Carsten's blog 

Honestly, I think Ajax will radically change how we consider portals, 
not only technically in the way they are implemented, but by the 
relation users will have with the portal. Just have a look at to see what I mean.


Sylvain Wallez                        Anyware Technologies           
Apache Software Foundation Member     Research & Technology Director

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