Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 73913 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2005 13:46:23 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 2 Oct 2005 13:46:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 3088 invoked by uid 500); 2 Oct 2005 13:46:21 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 3057 invoked by uid 500); 2 Oct 2005 13:46:21 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@cocoon.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: dev@cocoon.apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list dev@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 3045 invoked by uid 99); 2 Oct 2005 13:46:21 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 06:46:21 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: domain of ap-cocoon-dev@m.gmane.org designates 80.91.229.2 as permitted sender) Received: from [80.91.229.2] (HELO ciao.gmane.org) (80.91.229.2) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 06:46:25 -0700 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EM48s-0000zW-Fb for dev@cocoon.apache.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:44:38 +0200 Received: from host42-119.pool8291.interbusiness.it ([82.91.119.42]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:44:38 +0200 Received: from lmorandini by host42-119.pool8291.interbusiness.it with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:44:38 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: dev@cocoon.apache.org From: Luca Morandini Subject: Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete? Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:43:43 +0200 Lines: 46 Message-ID: References: <433DB4B5.8070703@apache.org> <433FBE68.2000507@nada.kth.se> <433FD85C.5080607@nada.kth.se> Reply-To: lmorandini@ieee.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host42-119.pool8291.interbusiness.it User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, it In-Reply-To: <433FD85C.5080607@nada.kth.se> Sender: news X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N Daniel Fagerstrom wrote: > Luca Morandini wrote: > >> Daniel Fagerstrom wrote: >> >>> if we succeed in attracting a large user base, >> >> Are we ? >> >> Consider: >> 1) Declining cocoon-users activity. >> 2) Reduced attendance (so far) to GetTogether (and it shouldn't be, >> since Amsterdam is a more accessible, if less fascinating, location). >> 3) Struts being more and more popular. > > It might be as you imply, the question is where we want to go. I agree. But, if a small team isn't winning it is losing... and I sense a loss of momentum since last year: why this is happening ? 1) Cocoon is not mature enough for making it self-sustaining. 2) Cocoon has become "old hat" for the early-adopters and they moved on to other, more exciting, things. 3) Both of the above, with Cocoon between the anvil and the hammer, failing to become as popular as, say, Struts and as exciting as Ruby on Rails (or whatever). Hence the dilemma: making it more mature or sexier ? >> My 0.02 EUR: I think Cocoon will remain a "niche" framework, used for >> complex applications and/or by gifted developers. > > Maybe, but I think we can increase the number of users by making ocoon > less complex [...] That's why I can't wait for Torsten to deliver his "RAD with Cocoon" speech :) Regards, -------------------- Luca Morandini www.lucamorandini.it --------------------