cocoon-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?
Date Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:19:30 GMT
On 03 Oct 2005, at 16:29, Jorg Heymans wrote:

> Upayavira wrote:
>>> "m2 archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=cocoon-archetypes
>>> -DarchetypeArtifactId=cforms-hibernate" -Dversion2.1.9"
>> And then you stick a pretty UI in front of that, because that command 
>> is
>> likely to frighten the willies out of any Cocoon newbie! :-)
> yes, anything that makes above command not look like kernel makefile
> output will do.

IMHO, eye candy, blocks-I'll-commit-rather-than-shepherd-myself and 
featuritis without proper consideration and restraint is what is 
"killing Cocoon". Much of this could be tackled by divorcing the core 
from the (figuratively speaking) crap, hard and fast. The good stuff 
will remain, the not-so-supported stuff will fall apart and fade into 

Now, in an environment where every committer/consultant worries about 
his own private customers and their JDK version numbers, I wonder if 
and when this will ever take off. In an environment where consultants 
expect the project to care for the fact they try to make money on the 
project, reality becomes warped.

If more people would have build products on top of Cocoon rather than 
do projects, I'm sure we might have been somewhere already. Now, Cocoon 
is that much of a moving and intangible target that, as an application 
developer, one really has a hard time justifying a pro-choice, except 
if one knows Cocoon (i.e. its good bits) really, really well. And then 
he won't use Cocoon as a product or platform, but rather as a bag of 
code he feels comfortable with.

More bait: my first reply contained quotes as "leadership, ESR, 
Suicidalism, being too kind for one another". Or as my SO would typify: 
"Do you want an apple or a pear?" "Can I have both? I don't want to 
choose, let alone make someone unhappy." "Duh!"

I'll be in Amsterdam tomorrow evening, ready to catch some flack. As 
always, my style idiom is targeted towards apologistic behaviour 
afterwards, and with the very best intentions. And I believe this kind 
of mails will be sent to the Spring and Rails-lists in about a year or 
so as well.

I'll finish in Baz Luhrmann-style:

Do one thing, and do it really well.
Focus, and don't look back
to be satisfied with what you done,
but try hard to become better
than you already think you are.


Steven Noels                  
Outerthought                              Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at                stevenn at

View raw message