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From Bertrand Delacretaz <>
Subject Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?
Date Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:33:41 GMT
Hi all,

I'll comment on a few snippets of what Stefano said, apart from that I 
tend to agree with most of what's been said by others.

Le 30 sept. 05, à 23:57, Stefano Mazzocchi a écrit :

> ...A phase transition is when you strongly believe in something, then 
> you strongly change your mind. Others call it a 'revelation', others 
> think you lost your mind...

Do we have to choose one option or the other?
I prefer to stay silent on that one ;-)

> ...Cocoon is a lot different than it wanted to be when I started...

For me Cocoon today is:

- An übercool integration platform: combine widely varying data sources 
easily and safely while keeping your code and system structure clean.

- A great help in structuring and implementing complex apps which 
include some form of web interaction (but the web part might not be the 
most important).

- The best tool that I know today to build long-lived systems, which 
might are meant to be actively developed for years and as such need a 
very clean, modular and open structure to be maintained at a reasonable 
cost and stay manageable.

- A collection of components written and assembled by some of the 
brightest programmers around, and it shows, although as with all bazaar 
developments finding your way is not always easy.

- A framework to build powerful tools: Forrest, Lenya, Daisy...

These things have little to do with what client technology is used, of 
course the most evident way is to use Cocoon to present traditional web 
pages, but that's only one option.

> ...Weird as it might seem, Mozilla and Cocoon have a lot in common:...

This is good to know and might help Mozilla gain more importance as a 
client-side platform.

If this happens (and if it does not other client-side technologies will 
have the same effect), it might diminish the importance of Cocoon in 
our projects, and make *some parts* of Cocoon obsolete. That's fine, 
things evolve in our world.

> ...Is client side advancement making cocoon and all its machinery to 
> compensate for advanced web client obsolete and archaic?..

This is slowly happening, but the machinery that you're speaking about 
is not the most important thing in Cocoon, it's just part of it.

> ...But as a researcher, a scientist and one that likes to push the 
> edge, I sense that cocoon is kinda 'done', not as in "finished, 
> passe'", but more as in "been there, done that"...

 From a researcher's point of view I fully agree - the mystery of Cocoon 
is gone, and it's good for those of us who are implementing 
applications or systems based on Cocoon.

IMHO, in the last few years Cocoon has moved from "interesting and 
mysterious research project" to "solid and mature (web) applications 
platform" with the (web) in parentheses on purpose.

For many of us I think we're not so much excited about new things 
anymore, we're "just" using Cocoon to build exciting new things, from a 
practical and business point of view. And I think this includes many 
more people than are visible on our mailing lists, as many companies 
tend to be secretive about the kind of strategic projects where Cocoon 
is used.

So, obsolete certainly not.

But the modularity is so good that Cocoon is in a state of flux while 
being used to build solid and durable systems.

For me that's where Cocoon is today: more mature, slightly less 
exciting, but more capable than ever.
We "just" have to stay on our toes to keep it fit.


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