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From Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacre...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [RT] seven good reasons to close down users@cocoon.apache.org
Date Tue, 04 Oct 2005 05:19:34 GMT
Le 4 oct. 05, à 00:00, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :
> ...I don't have that many reasons, but I don't think this is a good 
> idea:
>
> One: Marketing wise, this will be a very bad sign, and would give to 
> the outside world the impression that the Cocoon acceptance has shrunk 
> so much than two lists are too much. And although traffic has dropped, 
> we're far from that...

This is a realistic risk - but by not taking it we're IMHO showing 
signs of "doing things the old-fashioned way" with a strict segregation 
between users and developers.

> ...Two: Cocoon-dev is scary for newbies, or even intermediate users. 
> Disruptive random thoughts, design discussions about the very deep 
> guts of the engine, etc. Some of my colleague, which I consider 
> advanced users sometimes tell me they don't understand what the heck 
> I'm talking about in some of my posts. If we want more people to come 
> to Cocoon, exposing them to the dev's foolish discussions will just 
> make them turn away...

I tend agree with that - but people would IMHO quickly learn to filter 
out posts based on who's writing or on subject lines. I think most of 
us here do that, at least from time to time, about discussions that we 
don't have time to follow.

> ...Now you're right that some developers neglect users@...

I think that's my main concern, so if we find another way to solve this 
it might already be an improvement.

An easy way for us dev@ subscribers would be to filter both lists to 
the same folder, to avoid applying the "don't have time for users@" 
principle. But this doesn't solve the problem mentioned below...

> ...Now the main point is that progression in the lists should go from 
> bottom to top (i.e. users->dev) and that once you feel fluent in an 
> upper level (no pejorative meaning intented with "upper") you should 
> still be present in the lower levels to share your knowledge...

This is a problem currently, that many dev@ people are not to be seen 
on users@ anymore, and I think, it's even worse than that: we regularly 
ask questions on dev@ which in fact would belong on users@. We don't 
usually object and tell people to move the discussion there, so it's a 
net loss for users@ who miss the questions and answers.

Thanks for your comments, let's see what others think.

-Bertrand

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